Women Who Podcast – the Woman Behind the Magazine

Jen Hardy [00:00:11]:

Welcome to the fabulous over 50 Podcast. We are here to uplift, encourage, and empower women to live their best lives. I’m your host, Jen Hardy, and today we’re going to do that by talking to Kathy Barron. She’s the founder and editor in chief of Women Who Podcast magazine, and she’s the host and producer of Women Who Sarcast Podcast. When she isn’t Sarcasting and working on the next issue of the magazine, she cuts digital film, rides her ebike around town, and loves being on the water with her SUP board. My kind of gal. And I can’t wait for you to get to know her. Here she is. All right, Kathy, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here.

Kathy Barron [00:00:56]:

Well, thanks, Jen. It’s great to be here.

Jen Hardy [00:00:59]:

I love it.

Kathy Barron [00:01:00]:

We’ll just start the sarcasm off right off the bat, right?

Jen Hardy [00:01:03]:

Exactly. Oh, my gosh. And since you said sarcasm, talk to me about this podcast because it looks really interesting.

Kathy Barron [00:01:10]:

Well, I’ve been doing Women Who Sarcast podcast for five years. As of this month. And like every other podcaster, it was never really in my ten year plan. It was just a friend and I who lived in New Mexico would just call each other up once in a while and just like, shoot the shit for an hour and just be laughing the whole time because she’s very sarcastic and we just feed off of each other. And I was just like, hey, let’s start a podcast. Why not? Because we’ve never done it before, and we have no idea what we’re doing, but hey, why not? So that’s kind of how it got started, and unfortunately, life just got in the way for her, so I ended up going solo. And then what’s the word? I forced my friend Mario, the comedian. He’s not a woman, but he definitely plays a good one on TV. And he came in for six months and helped me out with the podcast for a while. So at that point, I kind of kicked him to the curb and said, thanks for all that you’ve done, but I got to move on and kind of came in with this format of interviewing a guest. And then my friend Shaylani would come in once a month. And then I created this episode called Real Deep Shit, and it’s basically just me talking, and I’m not a talker, so this was a big stretch for me, and I specifically created it to get myself out of my comfort zone, to force me to talk about stuff. And those are, like, the shortest episodes because it’s just like I don’t know what to say. I’m just going to throw out some words for about a few minutes and then call it good. But that’s been fun to kind of grow into. And it’s more of a somewhat serious sarcastic episode, but it’s been great. The format has been awesome, and then I don’t do it anymore. But I used to have for the fourth episode in the month, I would invite another podcaster on to talk about their podcast and other things relevant. But yeah, it’s been five years, so it’s been a long road and I did it every week for that long. I wasn’t smart enough to be like, hey, let’s do seasons so that I can take a break in between. But now that I’m older and wiser, I’ve decided to take a break for like a month or so and then come back and probably go into the seasonal format.

Jen Hardy [00:04:08]:

Well, you had a five year season.

Kathy Barron [00:04:10]:

Oh my God.

Jen Hardy [00:04:13]:

You know, it’s funny. I do seasons, but I never take breaks. Well, okay, that’s a lie. I took a three year break. I did. I took one huge hiatus and then I came back and it turned out to be so much better because when I took that break and I kind of got a fresh perspective on everything, everything was better. Sometimes you just need to recharge.

Kathy Barron [00:04:32]:

Exactly. Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:04:35]:

Get that a lot of work. Yeah. And I love how you said it’s going to get that shiny new smell when you come back to it.

Kathy Barron [00:04:40]:

Yeah, hopefully.

Jen Hardy [00:04:41]:

I like that. And the way I met you is I found women who podcast magazine that you happen to be you created this, right? The magazine. How did that come about?

Kathy Barron [00:04:56]:

Well, because I’m very judgmental and opinionated basically is what it comes down to. I went to Podfest in 2020, actually right before they shut down because of COVID So it was really an odd time. They had hand sanitizer and little packets of wet wipes all over the place. But lo and behold, it’s actually airborne. So that didn’t really do any good. But I scathed. I got out of it unscathed. But at the podcast, which was my first conference, which was a lot of fun, I loved going to that conference. It was very inspiring for me and really got me pumped up and just met some wonderful people that I still keep in touch with. There was the magazine that had come out and it was Hard Copy. It was being tossed around the conference and I picked it up and I thought, oh, this is interesting. So I kind of looked it over and a few months later I went back to see if possibly it was kind of focusing on women independent podcasters and it really wasn’t. There were a lot of celebrities on the COVID of the magazine, and that was just kind of disappointing to me, because I really feel like there’s like 90% of the podcast community are independent. And here we are still focusing on the celebrities and the big names, and they don’t really need our help to get noticed or to get the accolades or get the funding or the money. The advertisers, they’ve got a whole team to do that for them. And so that’s when that little creative voice whispered in my head and said, hey, why don’t you create your own magazine for women podcasters? And at first I was just like, are you nuts? I went to art school for video production back in the day and had some sort of like a class in design and illustrator and that sort of thing. So I wasn’t totally unfamiliar with it. But I hadn’t worked with it at all since early 2000. So I kind of dismissed it for a while. And then you know how it is. That voice just gets louder and louder until you pay attention. And then I reached out to my friend Sandy Larry’s, who’s in Australia, and she created Women Beyond 40. She has her own little empire over there and created a magazine called Women Beyond 40. And I called her up, and I was just like, okay, Sandy, here’s this idea. And she’s like, yeah, Kathy, you really need to do this. And I’m like, shit, okay, there’s my validation. But not quite the answer that I was looking for. But you know how it is. It kind of is the answer I was looking for. But at the same time, it’s like, I was scared. I didn’t know what I was doing. And so here we are two years later, celebrating. It’s a quarterly magazine, thank goodness, because I think if I did it any more frequently, I would definitely have to quit my day job and life in general because it’s a lot of work. It is a lot of work. But I feel that it’s important that women independent podcasters get the attention that they deserve and that they need and the validation. And not that anybody’s looking for validation, but it’s always nice to get recognized. And Jen, you are in this anniversary issue. Tell me how your experience was.

Jen Hardy [00:08:53]:

Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, I have to say that I’ve never had anyone pay so much attention to what I say that you did. And this article is written. And I was like, wow, those are things I didn’t even realize I said out loud. And they were written down. And so I was just really impressed with the amount of detail that is in there and then the amount of women that are featured. And it’s funny because you scroll through Facebook or Instagram or whatever, and you see the two sentences that you see about people, and you can see some of their pictures. But if you really want to get to know some women in podcasting, that is definitely the way to do it because you’ve really open up their life so that we can see it. And I love that. So I was really impressed with what you did for me. And my husband’s like, oh my gosh, because you sent me a copy of the article. He’s like, I’m going to post this. I said, no, you can’t post it. This is a paid thing. People have to go and you can’t just share it. And he was so sad because he’s like, this is such a beautiful thing. I want everyone to see. I’m like, well, they can, but we’re going to send them a little link and not the thing. But I thought it’s just another way for either a woman who is thinking about getting into podcasting, she can pick it up and look at all these different women with their diverse backgrounds and their diverse ideas and that’s something that I love. The girl that stutters, that there’s an article about her in this one, I actually have been talking to her, I don’t know at a thing for podcasters that we can talk each other. I think it was in your group, actually, your mighty group, possibly. And she’s a teenager who has a stutter and a podcast, which is something that people wouldn’t think. I think it’s so great to be able to get to know these women. And for podcasters, if I want to interview someone, what a great way to know their whole story. I can go get these back because I want to go back, get some back editions and really learn about the people that are in the sphere that we’re in. Because I think I’ve never seen a way to get to really do the deep dive other than what you’ve done. So I just applaud it, I really do. I think you do a phenomenal job and I can see why you do it once a quarter because there’s no way it could be put together by one person that well, because it’s 90 pages, it’s a long magazine. It’s not just because at first I thought it was going to be short, but it’s not short.

Kathy Barron [00:11:19]:

Well, I like to have the anniversary issue a little bit larger just to celebrate more podcasters. So I’m a little tired today since it was just launched yesterday. But that’s self imposed. It’s totally what my expectation is and what I want it to be. And I’ve had some great writers along on the journey with me, which I’m very grateful for them to be sharing their talents and kind of trudging along with me. And I think it is important to read about other podcasters and hear their story because there’s always a common thread with all of them about how they got started, why they got started and the challenges that they’ve faced since starting. But it’s also really cool to see the evolution that they’re experiencing too in their podcast and just the surprise of how many listeners they have or how the feedback has been. And just to see that glimmer in their eye and their excitement is awesome because we all want that feeling. And even though it is hard work, it’s very rewarding as well.

Jen Hardy [00:12:39]:

Absolutely. So what made you decide to focus on women?

Kathy Barron [00:12:44]:

Well, because I am a woman, first of all, but I also feel like in some times, we are the underdog in many situations, and I’m tired of being the underdog. And I think now with social media and the Internet, the playing field is not equal in any corporate job. Podcasting, it’s just not. And I think we need each other to support each other. We need each other to talk with each other, come in community and collaborate. Podcasting is so broad and huge. A lot of the women in the magazine aren’t just from the US. They’re from Canada. We’ve had India. We’ve had Australia, new Zealand, Ireland, UK. I mean, it’s been all over the place. So it’s a global thing. And even though we live in different countries, we’re all experiencing similar stories and situations. So I think women need to lift each other up and the magazine is just a tool to hopefully help that happen. The magazine isn’t the end all, be all, but it’s definitely a resource that people can use.

Jen Hardy [00:14:11]:

Yeah, I agree. And that’s why I do my thing for women, right? Because I don’t know, and I think specifically in what I’m doing. Well, I don’t know what I did before helping chronically ill moms. Nobody wanted to talk about that because we’re all supposed to be, I don’t know, rock stars. And then as we age, nobody wants to talk about that because whatever. So I think I love what you’re doing and I love that you’re bringing all of the women together. I think that it’s so crucial because I don’t know about you, but I find that women tend to take sides for everything. I don’t know. I got pregnant at 20, and so all my friends are like, oh, you’ve got a kid, you can’t be part of our group anymore, right? Kind of a thing. And then when I stopped working and stayed home as a mom, people were like, oh, are you judging us because we’re working? I don’t know. I just felt like no matter what segment I was in, it was segmented. And I don’t know why it has to be like that, but I like that you’re taking all the podcast women, you’re bringing them all together, because I think women need more of that. We really do. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s something that you’ve run into or not.

Kathy Barron [00:15:22]:

Well, I think conferences can be pretty clickish. I think it’s very high schoolish sometimes and how we just I mean, it’s one thing to connect with a group of people and be in that group, but a click is a whole different thing. It’s kind of like Mean Girls all over again. But I think podcasting is kind of like a lonely sport where we’re just behind the microphone speaking into the airwaves and hoping people will listen. So it can be very lonely, especially if you don’t have a co host or other people to do the podcast with. And I think it’s important to validate and acknowledge that. And that’s where community comes in so that you aren’t so alone or don’t feel so alone in doing what you’re passionate about doing.

Jen Hardy [00:16:17]:

Yeah, and I like that because you’ve started a community now as well. Do you want to tell a little bit about that if somebody’s interested in joining?

Kathy Barron [00:16:24]:

Yeah, we did a symposium last May called Women Who Podcast symposium. And it was a two day virtual event. We had four speakers and that intention of that was to kind of go a little bit deeper because conferences, you’re like, bebopping all over the place. You have all these sessions that are like 30, 45 minutes, so it just barely touches the surface and the speaker is usually trying to sell you their product at the same time. My intention for this symposium was you’re not selling your stuff. I’m going to pay the speakers. And it’s a two hour presentation, so each speaker got 2 hours to talk about the topic. And I wanted them to be topics that were important to women to know. Like I had an author talk about storytelling, I had a woman come and talk about finance and budgeting and a woman talk about marketing and promoting your podcast. And then a woman came and talked about inclusivity because I think that’s very important. And so I wanted to get into like a deep dive of these topics so that people could take something away that they could actually use and put into action after the symposium. And so during those two days, we had this roundtable discussion in between the speakers and it was a great conversation each day and we were able to bring up challenges and problem solved together as a group. And that’s kind of what made me think about having a learning community for Women Who podcast. And I think it’s important that there are some spaces created that are low barrier so people can actually benefit from those resources and be part of those groups. And so the learning community right now is kind of like invitation only for the podcast that are featured in the magazine and the writers and not to be snobby about it. It’s just that I want it to grow gradually and I don’t want to just open its doors to anyone and anybody, anyone in anything. Basically. I want people to take it somewhat serious and have a commitment and actually participate. So it’s just kind of a slow growing community and we meet once a month virtually, and then every quarter we have someone within the group present like a workshop on a topic. Like this month I’m going to be talking about interviewing. And so it’s just a fun way to get together and it is virtual so people can join all over the world and be part of a community to bounce things off each other and kind of like a mastermind group to help with challenges that people are having.

Jen Hardy [00:19:35]:

Love it. Yeah.

Kathy Barron [00:19:37]:

It’s great. I think the more that we can help each other and not have to pay for every little thing, the better. And that will help grow women in podcasting.

Jen Hardy [00:19:54]:

Yeah. The money thing tends to be a barrier for a lot of people. I don’t think people realize people that charge so much money for everything. So it’s really appreciated because even the magazine, there’s so much work that goes into it, and it’s only 599. It’s not like it’s going to be a barrier for anyone to buy it. So that’s really good.

Kathy Barron [00:20:15]:

And I think with the communities that are out there with the Internet these days, it’s like they promise a digital library. It’s like, well, you can Google anything on the Internet and get an answer for free. And so I think it’s really important. I mean, granted, people need to make money and support their admin efforts behind their group, so I’m not totally dissing them on charging at all, but I think they need to be more intentional and more conscientious of what they’re charging. If they want to reach a certain niche of podcasters, then that’s fine. But for me, it’s like, I want to be available to everybody because everybody has a day job. Nobody that I know is making money off of their podcast unless they’re a business and their podcast is attached to their business.

Jen Hardy [00:21:18]:

Yeah, I think that’s really important to talk about, too, is people assume that they’re going to make so much money from the podcast itself. When am I going to make money? I’m going to do this podcast. And they don’t make money unless you’re selling something else. But I don’t know, I think people have this misconception that the podcast itself makes money unless you’re charging for yeah. Like if you’re famous, but what is that? 0.1 of podcasters are so famous that people are going to pay for every episode, but people don’t pay us. That’s not how it works. You get to listen for free and that’s how much we get.

Kathy Barron [00:22:01]:

It does take some money to host it and promote it and do all the things that you want to do.

Jen Hardy [00:22:13]:

Yeah. I would say podcasting in general costs more money than it makes. Just the podcast itself.

Kathy Barron [00:22:22]:

Yeah. And people are like, oh, or you can get sponsors or you can get advertisers, and it’s like, it’s not that easy. It’s not as easy as you would think it would be because you have to have certain numbers because that’s what they look at. They look at the download numbers and.

Jen Hardy [00:22:39]:

Then you have to think, I don’t know, for my audience. I know when I started, I didn’t want somebody coming in and selling something to my audience. I wanted my audience to know they’re not going to be sold something. I’ll tell you about what I’ve got going on. If you want to buy that, you can. But I’m not pushing and I don’t know, I want people who listen to know that we’re just going to talk about the things that affect them without me trying it.

Kathy Barron [00:23:04]:

But see, even podcast that I listen to that have ads, I fast forward. It’s like back in the day when you recorded TV shows on VHS, you did it so you can fast forward to the commercials. Right. And you’ve got that’s the same thing.

Jen Hardy [00:23:18]:

Easy 15 second or 32nd thing where you can just hit the button.

Kathy Barron [00:23:22]:

Yeah. And people listen to them on 1.5 speed even. So people are they want instant gratification, and our attention spans have definitely shortened.

Jen Hardy [00:23:36]:

Over the oh, my goodness. Yes, they have. Do you listen to yours fast? I can’t listen to them fast unless I need to get information out quickly. But usually I don’t.

Kathy Barron [00:23:44]:

Yeah. I have to admit that I don’t listen to many podcasts because it’s like audiobooks. I can’t listen because my mind just wanders, and then I’m just like, oh, my God, I just missed the last two minutes of what you just said. So I have no idea. So that’s why I can’t listen to audiobooks either, because my mind just drifts and wanders.

Jen Hardy [00:24:09]:

Yeah, I listen to audiobooks when I fall asleep. It really helps me sleep, and then I don’t have to worry about my brain, doesn’t think about other things. I can just focus on that and sleep. I listen to podcasts in the car.

Kathy Barron [00:24:23]:

Yeah, I do, too, because otherwise I’ll.

Jen Hardy [00:24:25]:

Walk out of the room and then I miss it. So it has to be in the car where I’m stuck there.

Kathy Barron [00:24:31]:

You have nowhere to go.

Jen Hardy [00:24:32]:

Yeah. I listen to less podcasts than people assume I listen to. I think they just think that we listen to them all day.

Kathy Barron [00:24:38]:

It’s like we have our own podcast. It’s hard enough to get that one up on the board and then to listen to other people’s as well.

Jen Hardy [00:24:47]:

Here’s a question. Do you listen to your own?

Kathy Barron [00:24:51]:

No, do not. There’s been a couple of times, and it’s just kind of cringey for me.

Jen Hardy [00:24:57]:

That’s how I feel about it. And it’s funny because I’ve heard actors say they never watch Thorn work, and I thought, well, that’s silly that you work so hard on that. And then I’m the same. Unless I need to go back and get a specific piece of information. No, I don’t want to hear it. My husband will play them sometimes and listen to it when I’m not and.

Kathy Barron [00:25:14]:

It’S not because I don’t like the sound of my voice. I record it with the person, and then I go back and I edit it so that’s when I listen to it is when I edit it. And that’s plenty of times. That’s probably one time too many.

Jen Hardy [00:25:34]:

I feel the same way. I really do. That’s interesting. Well, is there anything that you would want to share? I think for a woman over 50 who maybe is interested in doing something like podcasting, but she thinks she just can’t, right? Because it’s new and different. Do you have any advice for someone?

Kathy Barron [00:25:56]:

This question? It’s always like know your who. And at first it’s kind of chuckle worthy because it’s like know your why. What does that even mean? But it’s actually true. It’s like you kind of have to know who you want to do a podcast because it’s a lot of work and it takes a lot of time and energy depending on whether you want to do a narrative or an interview, whatever your format is. Either way it’s going to take a lot of work. So you need to just have a come to Jesus moment and sit down and just write down everything that comes to mind on why you want to start it. And I think the more women voices we have out there the better. But if you know ahead of time why, then your chances of doing it long term are a lot higher than if you just kind of throw yourself into it and not really have an idea of what you want to do, because then pod fade will just totally engulf you, and then you’ll never return because the experience wasn’t a good one. So I think just listening to other podcasters, maybe even talking to a few podcasters to see what their experience was and then reach out, I mean, we’re here to support whoever wants to start a podcast, but I think knowing your why is the key and then start from there. You don’t need all the fancy gadgets and technology. It’s pretty inexpensive to get a microphone and headphones and there’s a lot of software out there now that you can record it on. So the logistics of it and the technology is probably the easiest part of it. It’s just continually to do it consistently so that you’re around for a long time.

Jen Hardy [00:28:01]:

I think that’s perfect. Yeah. And I think people do they get overwhelmed with the thinking of the tech and really the tech is not that hard when you’re just starting. You can go with just very basic things.

Kathy Barron [00:28:12]:

So that’s really good. It’s finding content week after week. That’s the hardest part because that’s kind of one thing that I’m taking a break. It’s like you just get tired of having to figure out, oh great, what am I going to talk about this week? So after a while it gets a little redundant and not so easy to find things. But it also starts with your curiosity too. So if you have the curiosity about someone or something, that’s usually the springboard to an episode, that’s good.

Jen Hardy [00:28:49]:

And then a new question that I’ve started asking people is, I’m springing this on you so you might not have it, but what is something that you thought when you were younger you thought was so important, but now that you’re more mature, you realize that really wasn’t important at all.

Kathy Barron [00:29:09]:

Wow, that’s a good question. Thanks for preparing me on this. I know right about it.

Jen Hardy [00:29:14]:

So while you’re thinking, because there was a lot of things when I was younger that I was like, oh, you have to do this and you have to do and now I realize, no, almost all of that was just lies. I could have relaxed.

Kathy Barron [00:29:28]:

I don’t know that I grew up with any, like, oh, yeah, by the age of 30, I need to do this. I will say, though, for some reason, when I turned 25, that’s when I had my midlife crisis. For some reason, I was just like, what am I doing with my life? Where am I going? Here I am 25. So that was an interesting year for me. I can’t remember quite what was happening with my life at that time to really kind of put me over the edge. But I say this, but probably in the moment, I probably wasn’t thinking it. I’ve just kind of, like, gone with it. And, you know, I’ve always been a risk taker. Originally from New York State, and I moved out to California right after I graduated from college in 87. And I had a brother and a sister out here. And then I moved to Portland for four years and decided to go to art school in Seattle. So then I moved to Seattle. When I said I would never live in Seattle So then I moved back to California, and then I moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico, for four years, and then here I am back in California. So I’ve been kind of all over the place, and I think I pretty much owe that to my parents because they never really held me back. They never really put fear in me to be like, oh, my God, no, you shouldn’t do that. They were always like, okay, if you want to move, move, and then in six months, if it’s not working, you can always come back. So having that as you grow up helps you make decisions, whether they’re good or bad, because you know that either way it’s going to work out. But I think as far as being liked or having a ton of friends or whatever, I think as you’re growing up, you want to be liked, you want to be part of the crowd. And I’m just like, whatever, I’ll stay in my house for forever. I don’t have to be social, right? As an introvert, it’s like, yeah, no, I don’t think I’ll go outside today, kind of thing. So, yeah, I think as you get older, you definitely learn who you are and what you’re going to put up with and what you aren’t, basically. Hopefully that answered your question.

Jen Hardy [00:32:07]:

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s good parenting advice, too. Let your kids tell your kids to go explore things and try them. Let them know the doors open.

Kathy Barron [00:32:17]:

Yeah, obviously there’s some parameters around that.

Jen Hardy [00:32:21]:

Well, yeah. For the most safe and healthy way.

Kathy Barron [00:32:24]:

Yes, for the most part. Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:32:29]:

Well, that’s great. Well, thank you so much for coming on today, I really appreciate it.

Kathy Barron [00:32:33]:

I enjoyed talking with you Jen and I appreciate having the opportunity.

Jen Hardy [00:32:38]:

That’s awesome. And everybody you need to go out and get that magazine and I will have a link in the show notes and if somebody wants to find you, where can they find you?

Kathy Barron [00:32:47]:

I am at Women who podcast magazine on Instagram and at Women who Sarcast on Instagram and you can also go to Womenhoopodcastmag.com to check out all the stuff happening with the magazine.

Jen Hardy [00:33:02]:

Awesome. I have links all on the show notes and on the website. So thanks again.

Kathy Barron [00:33:06]:

Thanks Jen.

Jen Hardy [00:33:08]:

What a great reminder that we need to encourage each other to do things because look what Kathy’s done. Just because she was taught to go and try and explore and now she is. And I encourage you whether you’re fabulous over 50 or incredible over 80, whatever you are, whatever age you are or whatever kind of things you like, go out there, explore new things. We are never too old as long as we have breath to go out and try new things and do new things and explore life and be fabulous. And I am so thankful that you took time out of your fabulous day to spend it with Kathy and I because she really is an amazing person and I’m so glad that you got to get a glimpse of her and with me. And I want to share something with you. I’ve started this new thing called Jen’s Friends and it’s a daily video email to encourage women over 50 so they may be well over 50, maybe they live alone and they just need an encouragement. Or maybe it’s you and you wake up and you think gosh, I wish I just had someone to tell me how wonderful I am every day. Because you are wonderful and you deserve that. I’ve got that for you. So you can go to Jenhardy net friends or just click the link in the show notes because it is so much fun for me to put together and I want to share it with the world because I’m so very excited. So check that out. Stay tuned and stay fabulous.