Pursuing Potential: A Conversation About Relationships and Self-Worth

00:00 Know that you deserve to be loved. Know that you’re worthy, even if you don’t feel it,

00:19 even if you were not given that. Think about a newborn. Does a newborn has worth? Absolutely.

00:31 Why? Right? A newborn has worth because anyone has worth. Our worth exists within us.

00:41 What happens is that that worth is not seen, validated, acknowledged. Don’t forget about it.

00:52 But the worth, the love, what you deserve, and that’s to all of your listeners, is within you.

01:00 If someone wasn’t able to acknowledge it, validate it, support it, it’s because of the pain they

01:06 carried and made them unable to offer you what you needed, and now it’s time to change.

01:15 And with that comes the freedom you’re talking about because your social emotional energy changes

01:24 and it impacts the way you exist in relation to others.

01:28 Welcome to this episode of the Fabulous Over 50 podcast and that is an example of the pure gold

01:37 you’re going to hear today. Today’s episode is a little bit different because my guest,

01:42 Dr. Mahsa, is originally from Iran and she’s going to tell us a little bit about what’s happening

01:49 over there before she starts to talk about relationships because part of what I want to do

01:55 on Fabulous Over 50 is shed light on the fabulousness in everyone. And there’s such a

02:05 schism between groups, not only in our country, but between peoples all over the world. And what

02:12 I want to do is bring us back together as humans because we’re all human. We all have the same

02:21 basic needs, right? So she’s going to talk a little bit about her people and where she’s

02:26 come from and then what she’s doing now and give you some amazing truths about yourself

02:33 and how amazing you are. So stay tuned. Here’s Dr. Mahsa.

02:42 Dr. Mahsa, thank you so much for joining me today.

02:45 Thank you so much for having me and thank you for your listeners to be listening to me.

02:50 I appreciate it because, you know, we always need to learn more about how to have better

02:54 relationships and that is why you’re here, but you have a very interesting story and I’d like

03:00 you to tell us a little bit about that before we talk about relationships.

03:05 So thank you very much for that opportunity. So I’m from Iran. I came here about 22 years ago now.

03:14 And just to give you a little background about my people and who we are. Iran is one of the oldest

03:22 civilizations. We used to be called Persia and the first human right declaration actually started

03:30 in Iran where it was a declaration of equal rights, equal language, equal right to believe in

03:40 whatever you believe, you know, it’s a lot of equality that was important and that was really

03:46 translated into our culture. So Iranian culture is really based on humility, respect, love and care

03:58 and standing for what is right and what is good. It’s a very collectivistic culture that the good

04:06 of the all is very important. And in that the individual is being taken care of because

04:13 individuals one of the all, right? It’s one of those cultures that really values a person’s

04:22 intellectualism and, you know, really pursuing their interests and what makes them happy and

04:31 pursuing, you know, whatever you can be, like really pursuing your potential. But if you’re

04:37 offered an opportunity, you need to take advantage of that and make sure you give back as a result.

04:44 We are very hospitable people and really care about those around us. Unfortunately, about 43

04:54 years ago, our revolution in a sense was stolen. And in the midst of the revolution and coming up

05:02 with a new democracy, a group of a religious sect in a sense took over and took advantage of

05:10 people’s vulnerabilities in my opinion and started to establish a real dictatorship under the name

05:19 of a religion. And the people who, you know, may know or maybe Muslim themselves will know that

05:26 what’s being practiced in Iran has nothing to do with a real religion. I myself am not religious,

05:31 to be honest with you. But even the concept of religion is not what’s happening. It’s really

05:38 an intertwined lie of staying in power and doing whatever it takes to be in power.

05:45 And so I grew up with this duality of certain people and definitely a regime that was very

05:55 oppressive and persistent on telling people what to do, who to be, whether allowed to think and not

06:03 to think and really brainwashing us through school. And on the other hand, I grew up in a

06:11 very progressive, modern thinking family and communities outside of the traditional schools,

06:20 where you were encouraged to think and reason and think beyond your immediate and really question

06:25 what you’re going through and understand the complexities of life. And this duality always

06:32 created this perspective of, yes, you need to be careful what you say because bad things really

06:39 could happen. But it doesn’t mean that you have to believe it. And when I say this, I truly mean,

06:46 I remember being a young child and thinking about being warned about, hey, don’t say these things

06:52 out there because there were kidnappings, there were arrests, there were stories, there were

06:58 people being killed and just everything you see now happening in Iran is just out. It was happening

07:04 for generations. But now things are so bad and this new generation is beyond brave and really

07:14 have nothing to lose. I speak to some of them and they’re like, I feel like I need to go out there

07:20 because the only thing I have to fight with is my body. I have to fight with my mind. I have to

07:26 fight with my body. And if I’m going to give my life for it, then that’s it. I don’t have anything

07:32 else. And I didn’t live that. I had very limited opportunities. And quite honestly, that’s why I

07:41 left when the opportunity presented to myself. But now it’s almost unlivable. And we’re talking

07:50 about a beautiful country with many different ethnical backgrounds and basically religions,

08:01 cultures, languages, and this fantastic, we have four seasons. We have, think about Hawaii in our

08:11 northern part, think about Texas, but we have the Gulf, kind of like drier lands in our southern

08:19 part. But we have large, amazing mountains. We have everything that you can imagine is within

08:26 that little country, but it is definitely being choked by a religious sect that just wants to be

08:33 empowered. It does not matter who they kill or torture, including children at whatever cost with

08:42 whatever rationale. So it’s really, this is my cry for help to really start to pay attention to

08:49 what’s going on in our beautiful country and in our beautiful culture, that not only our people

08:55 are being destroyed, but because of who we are and what we represent, it can really have a really

09:06 amazing or horrific impact throughout the whole world. Not to blow my own horn.

09:13 No, and I really appreciate you sharing that because I think people don’t understand when they

09:19 see, say the news, right? They see one thing, but they don’t see the people. And as you and I were

09:26 talking about before, my children and I, we did a deep dive into that and the people of your country

09:36 are an amazing people and they don’t get the credit for that. I think with enough people at all,

09:44 because people just see headlines and they make blanket assumptions for a whole group of people

09:48 based on the few. Right? And so I really appreciate that. So let’s say somebody is listening and they

09:55 think, well, this is horrible. I didn’t realize what it was like. What can they do? Is there

10:00 anything people could do to make a difference? So at this point, it really going to come down to

10:08 national and international organizations, right? The people in Iran are fighting for their lives.

10:15 There is financial support necessary because them and their families and their wounded

10:21 need support to be able to provide for themselves. I mean, recently, about a couple of months ago,

10:26 I found out that they don’t feed the political prisoners. They don’t get protein. Yeah. I had

10:32 the same reaction. And so we had to send money over so that the families could buy them food,

10:37 which is beyond understandable. I’m just like, blows my mind. But that is one thing is to find

10:46 reputable organizations. The second thing is, and I can send you a link. My uncle,

10:52 Hassan Naik Hashem, is actually a very strong political advocate. He has spent his whole life

10:58 fighting for Iran. And so they have an organization and they work with United Nations. So again,

11:04 United Nations is one of them. And then lobbying and following the news on social media, Instagram,

11:11 and following it and letting the message be passed on. I mean, if places like CNN cover things like

11:18 this, then the politicians have to do something. There’s so much that our people can do at this

11:24 point. We don’t have guns. We don’t have a way of protecting ourselves. They’re fighting with

11:30 their bodies against literal guns and taser guns and military equipment. Yeah. And a body

11:39 is not going to win against a tank or a gun. It’s not. So, okay. Well, that’s really good

11:46 information. Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, that is so amazing. And it’s not the

11:51 original reason that I wanted to talk to you, but I think it just, people need to understand.

11:56 And my personal passion is that, you know, there’s all these divisions right now in,

12:03 in just, you know, you can start like, um, moms, right. When I decided to stay home,

12:09 you know, working moms, not working moms, homeschooling moms, school moms,

12:13 and then political party one and the other, and then one country and the other. And I feel like

12:18 our whole world is being just, there’s these schisms everywhere and we need to come back and

12:25 have like this group of humanity, right? Like the humanity party. And we are just want everyone to

12:32 come together and love each other, you know, and, and find out where these problems are and help

12:39 and not just ignore it anymore. That’s so, so thank you for your honesty and your openness.

12:45 I really appreciate it. So when you got here, you decided to, um, continue your schooling,

12:52 which I can imagine was difficult, right. After you’d made all that those changes,

12:56 cause there’s costs involved in all of those things, right? So that says a lot about you and

13:01 your family. Thank you. Yes. I’m very grateful for my family and my husband. Um, when I came here

13:09 I was 20. I was actually in university in Iran when I was, when I came here and I was a study

13:13 nursing. Um, by the time I got here, they told me that basically that’s the only major that they

13:20 will not transfer anything over. So start over. And, um, you know, my brother came here six months

13:27 later, he brought me, my mom came and supported me and then she had to go back. And then the whole

13:32 family came little by little, but honestly, my family made a lot of sacrifices. You know,

13:37 my parents could have stayed retired, have had, you know, very comfortable life, but they came

13:42 and they started over as well. And I never forget their sacrifices, you know, everybody in my family

13:50 and they basically, they had established in me that if you’re given an opportunity,

13:56 you will make the best out of it. And you will make sure that the sacrifices are there as it

14:00 will transfer into something that you can get back. So difficulty was just a part of it. You

14:06 know, the reality was I wasn’t going to have this opportunity back home. You know, it was either

14:12 you’re looking at a bleak future or a very difficult road to an amazing future. There’s no

14:19 question you’re gonna go, but you know what is for me, you know, that’s how I was trained. You’ve

14:23 got to go through the difficulties because no matter what there is hope. And so I started my,

14:29 had to start over and I was passionate about psychology. Later it turned out that what I

14:34 wanted to do was social work. And throughout this process, I met my husband who I remember

14:41 second year of graduate school. I was just like, you know, I’m then I’m burned out. I need to get

14:46 out. And he’s like, nope, that’s not what we’re doing. We’re finishing. And so after that, about

14:52 nine months, actually, after I graduated with my master’s, I was working. I just had the feeling

14:57 that I needed to know more. And again, I had the support of my husband and my family and his mother

15:04 at the time she was alive and with us and my mom, my dad, my brother. And yeah, I went back and it

15:12 was really hard on my husband. You know, we were newly married about a year into our marriage. And

15:17 here I was, I’m a book nerd. So I wasn’t studying 24 seven or working and he really stood by me.

15:24 And you know, when I was like, you know what, I don’t need to finish this. Let’s just have kids.

15:28 It’s like, no, we’re not doing that. You got to finish them. We’ll have kids. So I’m really

15:36 grateful for all the people who really believed in me when I wanted to throw in the towel, you know,

15:43 and really gave me the energy and the passion to continue. And that’s what I want to do. I really

15:49 truly believe, and I have believed and seen this in my career, that all people need is someone to

15:56 hold onto that hope for them until they can take it on, on their own. That is the greatest thing

16:05 that you could say, right? I think that is so true because everybody does just one person,

16:11 right? If there’s only one person who believes in you. So that is amazing. I actually have done my

16:18 research on that. My PhD research is former gang members experience of childhood experiences

16:27 and its impact on childhood, its impact on later gang involvement. And in essence, that’s what I

16:34 found. Now I interviewed gang members who were serving a life sentence and have completed it and

16:41 came out, which means that they had murdered someone and then eventually came out. And all of

16:46 them went in at a very young age, 18, 16. They were all in a state of significant trauma and

16:56 reactivity that they really didn’t know what they were doing. They felt like they were about to die

17:01 themselves. And it was, as we did the research, it was a qualitative research. It was all about

17:07 the stories they were telling me. It was this repeated pattern of not having that enough of

17:16 people that provided them an opportunity, something different, that it was a failure of every system

17:26 that really led to their demise and their victim’s demise.

17:34 That’s really, that’s really powerful, isn’t it? It is so powerful to know. I know people who were

17:40 always told they’d be a failure and trying to overcome that is so hard for them. I mean, it

17:47 takes them, if they ever can, into their thirties and forties to unpack that and let it go. Is that

17:54 what you’ve had? So were there people who didn’t think that they could do better and then later

18:00 were able to, or does that kind of set their path? It’s interesting that you asked that because

18:06 that’s my specialty. My work experience is that I worked at Department of Children and Family

18:14 Services. So I started working with kids who were basically abused. And then I worked with

18:21 the fathers and then the mothers, because I worked at the jail and community mental health centers.

18:27 And then I worked with people who dealt with addiction. So I really got a very good understanding

18:32 of what has happened to these people and to their traumas. Since I developed a program,

18:40 I am very psychodynamically oriented. That’s what my PhD is in. And so what I do for my clients is I

18:46 help them recover and heal from childhood experiences. Some of them are traumatic. Some

18:55 of them are not. Trauma is differently defined, right? But we all have been impacted by those

19:01 important to us and their experiences and their traumas. And so what I do is that I help people

19:08 transform by healing from what they’ve suffered from, what they were told, like this whole idea

19:15 that you’re never going to be X, Y, and Z. And through our authentic real relationship in which

19:24 I really helped them have a different perspective and understand what happened, how it happened,

19:31 why it happened, and provide them a space to grieve and really experience their feelings that

19:39 they never had a chance to, a kind of a blossoming happens. It’s almost like all of this sudden they

19:50 are unlocked out of this prison, in a sense, that they’ve been in, that they never realized.

19:57 And the shackles of the past, I call them, comes off. And amazing to them and I, we find out that

20:05 they’re capable of things we never imagined they could. And that’s essentially when the therapy

20:11 ends, because they keep coming back and telling me all these wonderful things. And I’m like,

20:16 I think we’re done. I think you’re good. I’m not contributing anything anymore.

20:22 Contributing anything anymore. And that’s when they go and send me messages later. I’m like,

20:28 can you believe it? I keep reflecting back on how much my life has changed.

20:34 And it’s really about learning who the person is, finding out what is their true potential.

20:44 And because I believe in them, holding onto that hope, as I said, that they eventually start to

20:52 believe in themselves. And that opens the line for connection and relationship. I call this

20:59 corrective emotional experience, in which they redefine their experience with human beings

21:06 through their relationship with me, which then they can multiply it in all sorts of ways with

21:12 all sorts of people. And that becomes this continuation of connection and relationships.

21:21 Like when we understand what we’re suffering from, it becomes dissolved. The word relief comes to

21:30 mind. Everybody says, I get relief. And it’s this, they just flourish in such amazing ways.

21:38 That is amazing. Okay. So let’s say someone’s listening and they wanted to work with you and

21:45 they think, oh my goodness, I feel that. How can they get ahold of you? And I’ll have links in the

21:49 show notes too. So first and foremost, I want everyone to know that they are important. They

21:59 are valuable and they have a right to be heard no matter what the circumstances. And that’s what we

22:06 do. Anyone that calls will be spoken to, will be responded to and will be heard. We have different,

22:17 so it’s me and another therapist that we provide services. And then my husband is a ADHD life coach.

22:23 And for whatever reason, if we can’t help, we will provide referrals. But to work with me,

22:31 all they have to do is to go on Heal and Try Psychotherapy and Coaching and do a free consult.

22:38 I do offer free consult for your clients. Send us an email, send us a message. And yeah,

22:45 we will do a consultation and we will find how we can assist them. But please do call and do ask for

22:55 help. No one deserves to go through this alone, no matter the circumstances. Okay. And so, okay. And

23:02 so let’s say somebody is listening and they think, well, I feel secure in me, but what can they do to

23:08 help other people? Are there things that they can do to help other people feel better? Absolutely.

23:14 It’s the air of non-judgmental radical acceptance. It’s a very hard thing to do, but it is to accept

23:27 and see others as a whole. Because oftentimes we cannot see ourselves as a whole. And to reflect

23:36 that back on them. I’m okay with who you are, the good, the bad, and the ugly. It’s very powerful to

23:46 be accepted, and that will eventually translate into self-acceptance. That’s beautiful. Yeah,

23:57 because we just started Fabulous over 50, right? So women over 50. And I know when I was being

24:03 raised, people weren’t thinking about saying nice things to make us feel better. It was harder.

24:09 People were harder on everybody, because they wanted to just push, push, push. So I think

24:15 learning that it’s okay. It’s not a weak thing to be kind and gentle. It’s not weak and it’s

24:21 beautiful. And if you see, or I was kind of tough on my older children because I’ve got kids from

24:28 11 to 33, right? And so to be able to go back and say, I did, I actually just did that with one of

24:35 my daughters. I said, I should have been more gentle with you. And now I will be because I

24:42 didn’t realize that was a thing because that’s not how I was raised. But just because that’s

24:48 not how I was raised doesn’t mean that it’s not right. And that we can’t change even with our

24:54 adult children. So, as you’re saying, it makes a difference, right? Just because they heard things

25:01 as kids doesn’t mean that hearing them differently now isn’t good. It’s still good. Absolutely. That

25:08 offers a lot of hope for a lot of moms who are struggling with those adult child relationships

25:14 to know. You know, it’s very important to have compassion for others, but compassion for self.

25:20 Now, when we think about women over 50, what kind of a life experiences, what world did they grow up

25:28 in? What influences did they have? Who were their parents and the struggles of their own parents?

25:36 Right? I always talk about this intergenerational transmission of trauma. In essence, what it means

25:43 is what I go through and the world I see will make me act in ways that I’m going to basically

25:53 tell my kid you’re going through the same world as I did. And it may not be true. Right? And so

26:00 your parents, right? Probably treated you and raised you in a way that would made you successful

26:07 in the world they lived in. Did it apply to your world? Probably not. Was it in their best attempt

26:16 to protect you from their pain? More than likely. So that’s where the self-compassion comes from.

26:23 To be able to say, I didn’t know any better. And that is okay too. You know, the same will

26:32 be a compassionate and loving towards others. There’s also a child within us who also needs

26:39 that love and attention now.

26:44 Is just gold. I didn’t know any better. And that’s okay too. You know, and giving ourselves grace.

26:52 Yes.

26:54 Because I have a lot of, oh, sorry.

26:56 Oh no, because yeah, because it was, it was different, you know, things were different. So

27:04 that’s good to know.

27:06 I have a lot of respect for women over 50. I feel like that is such a golden age. This is where the

27:15 rest of your life begin. You know, I feel like up to this, you know, I’m 41 by the time I’m 50,

27:24 my daughter is going to be, she’s five, like 15 or 16. So she’s about to like go on on her own and,

27:34 you know, start her own journey, obviously with my guidance, helicopter mom here.

27:41 But I think that’s when I kind of start to once again, pay attention to what do I want the rest

27:50 of my life to look like with a little bit more freedom and comfort that I have given what I

27:57 wanted to and I’ve raised her. And maybe it’s my turn to raise myself once again.

28:05 No, that’s really good. And, you know, it’s funny that you were talking about the

28:07 generational thing. I just went through a thing personally called mental emotional release,

28:11 where you deal with the intergenerational trauma and letting that go. And I have to say from

28:18 personal experience, completely changed my life. And the person who I worked with said, just watch

28:27 your kids are going to be so much happier because you’ve released all the anger and the sadness.

28:32 And literally within a week, and apparently that’s as early, but my son came to me, my 11 year old

28:38 and said, I feel so happy and I don’t know why. And it was the most beautiful thing. And I wish

28:45 I would have known, you know, decades ago, but like you said, you know, we have to give ourselves,

28:50 forgive ourselves for what, you know, you only know what, you know, when you know it.

28:54 But to be able to move forward and help not only my own family, but other women understand that

29:00 that is real and it is life transforming. So that’s great that you do that too, because

29:07 yeah, it’s amazing. I mean, just, it just happened a month ago and my whole life is so much better.

29:13 My whole life is so much better. So, so thank you for sharing about that too. And

29:17 thank you for sharing everything. Is there anything else that you want to,

29:20 any last thoughts that you want to leave everyone with before we, before we stop?

29:25 Know that you deserve to be loved. Know that you’re worthy, even if you don’t feel it,

29:33 even if you were not given that. Think about a newborn. Does a newborn has worth?

29:43 Absolutely.

29:45 Why? Right? A newborn has worth because anyone has worth, you know, our worth exists within us.

29:56 What happens is that that worth is not seen, validated, acknowledged. And you forget about it.

30:06 But the worth, the love, what you deserve, and that’s to all of your listeners, is within you.

30:14 If someone wasn’t able to acknowledge it, validate it, support it, it’s because of the pain they

30:20 carried and made them unable to offer you what you needed. And now it’s time to change. And with that

30:30 comes the freedom you’re talking about because your social emotional energy changes. And it impacts

30:39 the way you exist in relation to others.

30:45 Well, we’re going to end right there because that is just solid gold.

30:49 Thank you so much, Dr. Mahsa for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.

30:54 Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and thank you to your listeners for listening.

30:59 I really look forward to hearing from them.

31:01 And you can get all of her information in the show notes and on the website. So be sure you

31:06 check that out and we’ll hopefully talk to you again in the future. Thank you.

31:11 Absolutely. I would love that.

31:12… or anything, just fabulous. And stay tuned because next week we have another relation

31:20 specialist who is going to talk to us about a topic we don’t usually talk about, but it’s going

31:27 to really open your eyes. So stay tuned and stay fabulous.