LIVING FABULOUSLY WITHOUT DIETING OR GUILT

Jen Hardy [00:00:00]:
Today, I am thrilled to have an amazing podcaster, author, and also friend, Nicole Christina, here with me. Welcome, Nicole.

Nicole Christina [00:00:10]:
I’m so happy to be here with you.

Jen Hardy [00:00:13]:
This is so exciting. Can you tell a little bit about yourself?

Nicole Christina [00:00:16]:
Sure. I’ve actually been a psychotherapist for 32 years. I never thought I would ever say those words, but here I am, and I specialize now in, eating disorders, disordered eating, and all of that, and especially around midlife. So, that is actually trending. And if people wanna know more about that, I can give some resources. And I’ve been a podcaster for 6 and a half years, zestful aging. And I used my clinical experience to write a book called Not Just Chatting, How to Become a Master Podcast Interviewer because I sort of interview people for a living really in a sense clinically and I thought I could add something to the conversation. So that was really fun.

Nicole Christina [00:01:05]:
And, and now I do a lot of guesting on podcasts to talk about both ends of the mic, hosting and guesting. And I get to hang out with people like Jen Hardy. So it’s a win win.

Jen Hardy [00:01:17]:
I love it. And now psychotherapy, I was a psych major in college. So and that is the most intense schooling you can do. Right? I mean, you went through a lot of school.

Nicole Christina [00:01:26]:
I went through a lot of schooling, you know, and they give you yeah, I make I I often say they didn’t teach me this in school and, you know, with COVID and all, I’m still telehealth. And, so there’s pluses and minuses. The pluses are I can walk my dogs and wear, like, yucky sweatpants as long as I’m, you know, from the waist up. Okay? The minuses is it’s you really don’t get as good a sense of how people are doing, especially if they’re engaging in some eating and exercise behaviors. You kinda wanna see them in the, in the flesh. So that’s been a bit of a detriment, but all in all, you know, it’s a lot of people looking for services. So not not running out of a job anytime soon. But, so I’ve sort of merged them in some way because that’s for aging.

Nicole Christina [00:02:19]:
I do quite a bit about, you know, what aging is like, the joys and the challenges, and many of the challenges have to do about, you know, for many women, how our bodies change.

Jen Hardy [00:02:30]:
And I know yeah. A lot of the women I talk to and personally, you know, as things are changing, it’s we try to make, you know, I used to say, oh, when I get older, I’m gonna look at every wrinkle as, you know, a memory or as well.

Nicole Christina [00:02:44]:
Of honor.

Jen Hardy [00:02:45]:
Right. But then when they happen, you’re you’re thinking,

Nicole Christina [00:02:48]:
what is this?

Jen Hardy [00:02:49]:
It’s a little harder to make peace with, and I’ll tell you what, mother nature is no woman. That’s that’s what I keep telling everybody. Oh my goodness. But Yeah. So you were saying that and I found this fascinating that eating disorders are perking back up in midlife. And I think that’s something I honestly had never heard before you mentioned it.

Nicole Christina [00:03:09]:
It’s a really it’s a little little niche. And I think, well, I don’t think, I mean, COVID was no friend, to folks who were already struggling a bit, But, you know, there’s a lot of research and I don’t want to go into a whole dissertation about it, but basically there’s a lot of there’s a big vacuum often. And I think you’ll understand this, Jen. You know, some sometimes our our kids are launching. Some of them are not launching, but there’s a lot of changes, a lot of adjustments, a lot of losses. Our identity’s all whacked out. You mentioned about, you know, mother nature is tough and not a woman. And especially if you’ve been given a lot of attention for your physical, beauty or, and then all of a sudden people aren’t looking at you anymore.

Nicole Christina [00:03:57]:
It is so devastating, you know, to women who have had a lot of attention for that. So there’s just a ton of adjustments, and it’s a very easy and accessible way to make your self sort of feel better. You know, I’m only eating clean, no carbs, no this, no that. I’m at the gym. Just gives your, like, the world feels more safe and controllable. And in the world world that we currently live in, God who doesn’t crave that. The problem is that if you become so hyper focused on what you’re eating and and your exercise, your your life really shrinks, and that becomes your relationship rather than your relationship with your loved ones. So it’s a I call it the backstabbing friend because it seems tempting and, you know, like, oh, I’ll just eat kale or I’ll just eat organic chicken.

Nicole Christina [00:04:50]:
And it seems like a great idea. And you’re the boss until it becomes the boss of you. And you can’t go to a birthday party because they’re serving cake. And then we’re in a situation where, oh, I’m in a trap now. And it’s very painful. And I have great compassion for women who and men who are stuck in in that trap.

Jen Hardy [00:05:11]:
Yeah. And it’s it’s a lot of it is control because I know as someone who deals with anorexia, who has dealt with it my whole life, You know? And it had gotten better, and I was finally at peace with my body until a doctor told me I was overweight and had to work on that. And, it but, you know, I had finally I I I actually did make peace. I think part of it for me growing up in Los Angeles in the eighties Oh, boy. My feet were too thin. You know, everyone would always tell me my, you know, my I have no waist, and my nose is too big. And, you know, like, all these things. And this constant feedback of negativity, and I literally moved my my girls out of there to leave that.

Jen Hardy [00:05:51]:
And I think now that I live somewhere where women in their eighties are walking around in bikinis, and they don’t care what they look like.

Nicole Christina [00:05:57]:
I love it.

Jen Hardy [00:05:58]:
It’s a whole different thing. And I can I finally you know, and it should it be from an external? No. It should be internal. I I know that. But I think it’s easier to make peace when so and I think if you’re listening Sure. We really have to stop comparing. The

Nicole Christina [00:06:15]:
Oh, yeah. That’s that.

Jen Hardy [00:06:17]:
That is really right at the root of a lot of these things is

Nicole Christina [00:06:22]:
And finding something that’s meaningful that has nothing to do with how you look. Like, you know, I’m really into knitting. I’m into gardening. I’m into making, you know, good good food. I love my dogs. You know, I like I love to travel with my girlfriends. I play tennis. I mean, it’s a lot of stuff that’s not about, oh my gosh.

Nicole Christina [00:06:41]:
You know, my waist looks like this or as long as I can put a tennis skirt on. Everybody has you know, this age, we all have bumps and weird stuff coming out. Right. So but, yeah, I think that’s really true. I mean, of course, when we grew up, there wasn’t, Instagram and Kim Kardashian and people doing all of this stuff. So it’s so different now. But it’s you know, what I talk about is this, like, it’s a rebellious act to say, I’m not playing that game. I am not playing that game.

Nicole Christina [00:07:14]:
I’m gonna go out, take a walk, look at the sun, and be super into gratitude. And, like, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? And it’s not worrying about the fact that I ate a piece of banana bread this morning. And when you put

Jen Hardy [00:07:29]:
it in perspective like that, I’m in oh my gosh. Right? Why why spend hours a day thinking or feel letting ourselves feel guilty because we had a chip?

Nicole Christina [00:07:38]:
Yes. Let’s live your life. Yeah. Yep. For sure. And I I always believe that if we just watch ourselves in guilt because we had whatever it was a chip, donut or whatever, that guilt is I think, probably worse for us and our psyche and our mental health and our spirit than the chip that we ate. So, you know, if you’re gonna fall into a spiral of of self loathing, that that’s not that’s not helpful in any way.

Jen Hardy [00:08:10]:
No, not at all. So what would be a couple of tips you could give for a woman? Maybe, you know, this this age, right? We’ve got children, like you said, children launching or not launching

Nicole Christina [00:08:21]:
or not launching.

Jen Hardy [00:08:22]:
You know, husbands that are have left or checked out. Unfortunately, a lot of them, they might still be there, but they’re you might have had an idea of what retirement or this, you know, empty nest would look like with your spouse, and it it might not look like that.

Nicole Christina [00:08:38]:
I always use the example of you may wanna go on a hot air balloon and they’re sitting in their recliner watching the History Channel. At some point, it’s like, you know, we gotta renegotiate this. And what we’re finding, and you probably know this, Jen, because you’re really keyed into the community, is that many women over 50 are traveling by themselves. It’s the biggest uptick in, travel, and companies are quite aware of this. So you’ll see a lot of advertising like Rhodes Scholar is one of them, you know, just for women. We’re gonna go to the really cool places. And it’s not saying, you know, you don’t love your partners. Just saying, I wanna go somewhere you don’t wanna go.

Nicole Christina [00:09:21]:
I’m gonna go with my posse, and I’ll tell you about it when I get back. I’m doing that as well, in Spain. You know, my husband’s like, I wanna go to Alaska. I’m like, go. I’ll see you when you get back. So yeah. So the you know, in terms of advice, what I would say is, you know, what really feels deeply meaningful for you? And if we fast forward towards our last breaths, not to be morbid, but like, can we think about what would we regret if we hadn’t done it? And so I’m talking about stuff that’s more substantial than your dress size. I’m talking about, are you being with the people that you care about? Are you learning new things? You know, are you staying curious about, you know, like there’s so much out there to learn that I, you know, I have particular training, but I don’t know about this.

Nicole Christina [00:10:17]:
I don’t know about this. I belong to this knitting club and these people are bringing in like things I’ve never seen felting this one, that when they’re doing these amazing things. And I’m just sitting there kinda knitting and just to learn, not that I’m gonna go ahead and become, you know, raise sheep, but it’s interesting to hear about other people and what they’re doing. So I would say, you know, how do you want the rest of your life to look? And it’s probably not gonna be counting calories. That’s probably not gonna be that’s gonna make me feel alive and purposeful full and you know really filling up this very precious time probably not like you know she was the perfect size 6 wow what a life you know that’s probably if you look at it in that perspective that’s just not what most people would do. So it’s not easy and I, you know, I like to talk about people talk about body I’m actually like, if we can get to neutral, that would be good. And I talked to another person who does this kind of work and we talked about a constructive relationship with your body. I don’t know that we can go from, like, oh my god, my cellulite or my stretch marks to, hey.

Nicole Christina [00:11:40]:
I’m so in love with my body. That’s a big ask. But what I’d like to do is just help people move the needle a little bit to, okay, I can appreciate that these legs are gonna carry me or this body that’s birth these babies or, you know, had these surgeries or gone through chronic illness or whatever is still, you know, there for me. It’s my greatest ally. So I’m trying to be more realistic about what, you know, it’s a it’s a pretty long journey to body positivity. I think that that in the media that’s felt a bit, how shall I say? It’s a buzzword and it also feels pretty pretty hard that’s not acknowledged.

Jen Hardy [00:12:28]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Nicole Christina [00:12:30]:
And I think everybody’s really different, you know? I think it’s really helpful to listen to podcasts. Not and and I’m not even talking about successful aging, but there’s a lot of podcasts about there. They’re really supportive with women in some kind of recovery and also calling out these advertisers saying we are so tired of this antiaging BS. The only one that that’s helping is you because you’re making money off shaming us. So I would really invite people. There’s and my clients will come back and say, oh, you gotta listen to this episode. It was really, really helpful. I would do a deep dive into the podcasts that are, for women in some kind of recovery or some supportive, you know, sort of process that could be so helpful.

Nicole Christina [00:13:24]:
I mean, just to put in your ears while if you’re taking a walk or gardening or whatever you’re doing. So that’s like kind of having your own little therapist on call. It’s you don’t feel freakish. You feel like, well, I’m not the only one and we’re, you know, we’re mammals. We we wanna be with our group. Right? You know, we don’t wanna feel alone and isolated and that’s that cannot be overstated. It’s a it’s a beautiful thing.

Jen Hardy [00:13:49]:
Yeah. Well, that’s I I so appreciate you sharing this because I it’s so so important. And what would be if let’s say someone is feeling very overwhelmed with these these thoughts, Talking to someone is definitely a good idea.

Nicole Christina [00:14:06]:
Yeah. I mean, I you know, again, not to be a downer, but, eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of any psych diagnosis and, you know, we could probably imagine why. And and so for sure, I mean, I think they’re, you know, if it’s taking up a lot of real estate in your brain, if you’re if it’s really shrinking your social life because you don’t wanna go to the beach because you don’t wanna wear a bathing suit or you don’t wanna go out to lunch with friends because you don’t wanna you know, there’s a lot of this. I think that that would be helpful. That being said, there’s not that many of us out there who specialize in this because it is it’s a it’s a tough sub subspecialty, and there’s a lot of, how shall I say it? It’s a long road. It can be a really long road. What I would suggest, and you can, certainly put this in the show notes is, NEDA, n e d a. Okay.

Nicole Christina [00:15:07]:
And that’s, the National, Eating Disorder Association. That’s kinda like the mothership. And there’s tons of other, places like there’s, you know, ones for bulimia, anorexia, and all this, but need is a good place to start. And then there’s a book that I and I’ve read hundreds of books, and there’s probably hundreds I haven’t read. But there’s one in particular I really love. It’s called body kindness, and it’s by Rebecca Scitchfield. She has a podcast. I think it’s still running called body psych.

Nicole Christina [00:15:42]:
I actually interviewed her a couple years ago on, zestful aging. The reason I like this book is it’s super accessible and it’s just presented in a way that it’s not academic, it’s not clinical. It’s just really gets to the heart of how we take care of ourselves and how we treat ourselves and how we show up in the world. She just did a beautiful job. So that’s one of my favorite books.

Jen Hardy [00:16:08]:
Is there something not a diet, but a guideline you know, so for people who do overthink everything they put in their mouth, do you have anything simple on that line?

Nicole Christina [00:16:20]:
Well, I hate to admit this to you, Jen, but I am as confused as everybody else. I mean, because all the experts say, if some are like, you can only get your protein from meat. No. You can’t. Look at the weightlifters who are all vet. You know? So I’m like, oh my goodness. So this I I love that question because I have asked that of people on my show because I’m like, please help me understand this. So here’s the simple way to start, which I think is kind of brilliant because it’s so simple.

Nicole Christina [00:16:49]:
Stay away from ultra processed foods. They call them UPFs. So that’s anything that, you know, your grandmother wouldn’t recognize that food as foods, these yodlee things, anything that is, yeah, like, has a skew, like a box, anything that’s like Doritos are layered in a way with flavor to make them addictive because we love novelty and taste. So if you could stay away from those kind of things, the ultra processed, and, stay away from the inflammatory oils, which are seed oils, which we were told are good for us, canola oil, sunflower oil. These are inflammatory. So stick with olive oil and avocado oil for high heat cooking. I do all my baking with avocado oil or coconut oil. I mean, butter is okay too, but that gets into another kind of realm.

Nicole Christina [00:17:51]:
And move more, and that doesn’t mean, you know, going to a boot camp. I that name is so dreadful to me. I’m like, why isn’t life hard enough? Do I now have to go to a boot camp? You know? So I am a big fan of just doing a lot of dog walks and being out and be like, what kind of flower is that? Oh, the sky is pretty, you know, that kind of thing. So if you start with that, staying away from ultra so we’re talking about basics, just sort of as you had indicated, Stuff that’s not like boxed mac and cheese. Stuff that’s not, you know, pre prepared, but really just simple, straightforward foods like they used to eat before there were factories that were designing foods to be addictive. So one of my guests was really cute. She goes, eat less processed foods and take a walk. And I was like, that’s I can I can get into that? So, you know, not everybody can take a walk, but the idea is it can be pretty simple and it’s also very individual like I’m not the kind of person who is a vegetarian.

Nicole Christina [00:19:05]:
I’ve tried it and it I don’t feel good. So see how you feel on different kinds of, you know, when you eat, how much you eat, and, so I would I would definitely ask you to check-in with your gut and your energy level. And the thing that Evelyn Tribble says, which I I think is so brilliant. This is about energy and satisfaction. So after you’ve eaten your meal whether it’s you know your your kind of equation or whatever else, people come up with. The question is are you feeling energized? Because that’s what food is for and are you feeling satisfied? And so some of that has to do with how fast we’re eating, how intentionally we’re eating. That’s a whole rabbit hole. But those are are some things to keep in mind.

Nicole Christina [00:19:56]:
Many people don’t think, oh, I should feel better after I eat. Not, you know, not like self talk. The first thing I would say is hang around with other zestful women who are doing really cool things, Jen. Like when you’re doing your YouTube channel and you’re like crushing it, you’re not thinking, oh, wow. I really wish I look like Christie Brinkley. You’re like, look at me. This is so cool. And that’s what I want people to go for is what makes you feel alive, grateful to be alive, and just filled with pleasure and appreciation and, you know, and and love.

Nicole Christina [00:20:41]:
And and so I guess what I would say is, what are you gonna do to distract isn’t really the right word, but prioritize, like, look what I’m doing now even though I have cellulite. I have, stretch marks. I have whatever. You know? I was joking with my husband because I had to buy underwear for this quick dry underwear for this trip I’m on. I’m like, these are like granny panties. Okay? These are to take up the the whole suitcase. You know, we’re joking about it. He was just rolling his eyes.

Nicole Christina [00:21:18]:
I would hang out with women who are not weight obsessed and not like, oh my god. I have to get a tummy tuck. I’m so gross. That’s that’s a lot of it. I hang around with women who like to hike and walk and do that stuff, and we don’t spend time saying, you know, oh my god. I got a gray hair, you know. So that’s that. The other one is, when you recognize you’re saying I am not Christie Brinkley, to catch yourself and wonder who benefits from that.

Nicole Christina [00:21:53]:
I mean, where did that come from and what does it cost me to believe that? Because I think what happens then is you can’t be fully in your in your, vibrant self. Right? If I’m like, you know, I’m never gonna be a Christie Brinkley. That’s true. But I’ll tell you what I will be. I’ll be a podcaster who’s won awards and who’s done this for six and a half years and got to travel and got to meet the most incredible women. That’s what I can tell you. And so I think that that that’s really what we’re talking about, the focus and being aware of this little program that’s always running like, oh, you know, you’re not as muscular as your friends, or you’re not as pretty as this one, or you’re not as smart as that one, to really see if you can flip it and say, yeah. But look what I’m look what I can do.

Nicole Christina [00:22:46]:
I’m raising these children, that are challenging. I’m, you know, partnered with this person or you know, so to be aware is very important because a lot of this stuff runs like a program in the back and we don’t we’re so used to thinking it. We don’t even realize it anymore. So pay attention to what you’re saying to yourself and then hold it up to the light of day and say, okay, Not Christie Brinkley, but who am I, and what am I doing? Because pretty cool.

Jen Hardy [00:23:17]:
I love that. And then another thing that you said was the word pleasure. And I think in our air when we were growing up, it was that word is associated with things that sometimes people are like, that’s dirty. It’s associated with net. You know what I mean? And so to say, I can do things that give me pleasure. Mhmm. And that that’s okay. And it’s not only okay, but we shouldn’t be encouraging it.

Jen Hardy [00:23:45]:
I think that isn’t that important for women?

Nicole Christina [00:23:48]:
I think so. And, again, I can’t focus enough is finding a community. Again, podcasters, there’s a whole emerging community of women over 50 who are like, look at me go. And they’re not all climbing Everest. You know? Some of them are just planting gardens that they love or making tinctures out of herbs. You know? They’re like, I’ve always wanted to do this. I’m dyeing my yarn in my backyard. I’m like, power to you.

Nicole Christina [00:24:14]:
That’s not my thing. But, you know, they’re really like, I have time now because, you know, if they their kids are launched or they’re not partnered anymore, or maybe they’re retired some are retired. They get to say, like, hey. What do I really love to do? And I’m doing it now because these years are so prime, that, you know, in 20, 30 years, I don’t know whether I’ll be able to hike that long or do whatever. So it’s such precious time. We have learned so much. We’ve proven ourselves to be so resilient and people call it prime time. You know, you said, oh, well, what’s this middle age stuff.

Nicole Christina [00:24:55]:
You know, you’re going to live to 120, but many women are calling it prime time, and the research really supports that.

Jen Hardy [00:25:02]:
I love that. Right? Because we’ve got the knowledge. We’ve got most of us are financially better off than

Nicole Christina [00:25:08]:
we are. Let’s be real. Right.

Jen Hardy [00:25:09]:
And we are able and it is it is prime time. I’m okay. I’m I’m running with that. I love it.

Nicole Christina [00:25:15]:
That wasn’t my I didn’t make that up, but I I did I did take it from somebody who was smart.

Jen Hardy [00:25:22]:
Was that one of the comedy things used to be the not ready for prime time players.

Nicole Christina [00:25:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:25:26]:
So we are now the ready for prime time players.

Nicole Christina [00:25:31]:
You know, you do not get to be this age without life just hit me on the head by with a 2 by 4. And I, you know, I’ve had a lot of challenges and losses in my life, and I really feel like I’m making up for lost time now. You know? And my friends kind of tease me about like, oh, of course she’s gonna do this. Of course she’s doing that. Because you know, I say yes to a lot of things, but I feel like time has taken. You know? I I wanna be able to try things that I’ve never tried, and now’s the time because it’s not gonna get easier.

Jen Hardy [00:26:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well and you know what? The other thing too is since you said, you know, now is the time, pictures. Pictures. We, if you were a mom, especially you were taken all the pictures and we, and you know that, oh, I don’t dip my hair. Wasn’t good. I’ll just take the pictures. But if you look back at the pictures, you were gonna think, man, I looked good.

Jen Hardy [00:26:26]:
I looked so good.

Nicole Christina [00:26:27]:
And I was talks about. I was looking at pictures of the writer, and LaMotte, and I was like, oh my gosh. I was so overweight. And she looked at herself and say, you know, what I would do to, you know, look so young and and and and lovely and all this stuff. Oh, yeah. We’re so far.

Jen Hardy [00:26:45]:
So I’m encouraging people now to take all the pictures you can of you and be in those pictures because this is it. This is wherever you’re at, wherever you are, this is the this is the best in your just do it because you’re gonna be thankful later. You know, embrace, embrace the part, love, you know, and, and just ignore the. Your body, your body’s getting you through the day. You wake up, you can breathe, you can do all these great things that we’re talking about. And you’re doing that because of this body.

Nicole Christina [00:27:14]:
You know, it’s interesting. I’m going to be doing a presentation on this. I think I mentioned kind of kinda work down the body like, oh, my stomach, oh, I don’t like my stomach. It’s flabby. You know, like, can you offer some gratitude for carrying the babies, for getting you up out of bed? You know, maybe you can’t be in love with it now, but can you just bring some appreciation to it? So we’ll do a full body scan of appreciation and people will, you know, weep because they realize how what a antagonistic relationship they have. And the attacker is you. You’re attacking yourself. So, it’s it’s intense.

Jen Hardy [00:28:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So before we go, what is what is one thing that someone can start doing today to really begin the process of of rekindling their love for themselves? Because I think that’s so

Nicole Christina [00:28:23]:
important. I love the, self compassion movement. Kristin Neff, really spearheaded that. I I have found that to be tremendously powerful in my therapy practice and in my own life. I would recommend looking at Kristin Neff’s YouTubes. She does these short little YouTube. She has an autistic son and she will often talk about some of her, challenges and how that becomes, a a challenge for her self compassion. I would really look at how can you shift a punitive, attitude attitude towards one of wow I am really trying I’m not maybe doing it great every single second but boy you know this is hard.

Nicole Christina [00:29:13]:
That kind of orientation is so powerful and actually research shows that it gets us further than like kicking ourselves in the butt. So I would really recommend looking at she’s got a great workbook on self compassion, and I can’t recommend that enough.

Jen Hardy [00:29:34]:
Alright. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. There are so many different things we could talk about.

Nicole Christina [00:29:40]:
Yeah. There are.

Jen Hardy [00:29:41]:
That was a that was a good one to cover for today.

Nicole Christina [00:29:43]:
We’ll start there.

Jen Hardy [00:29:44]:
So thank you again, Nicole. I’ll have all of her information in the show notes. Now when someone’s listening and they think, wait a minute. I would love to work with you. Can they if they have the information in show notes?

Nicole Christina [00:29:56]:
Yeah. They can. Here’s the caveat. Insurance will not cross state lines. So what we I’m also you know, I’ve had a, intensive training as a coach, but, what we would have to do is we cannot use health insurance if you are not in New York state. That’s kind of it’s all the COVID y insurance stuff, but certainly we can meet, and I do meet with many people, through telehealth. So, yeah, that’s a nicolechristina.com question, more than a zestfulaging.com question.

Jen Hardy [00:30:29]:
Great. Alright. Well, then we’ll have links to all of the things. Okay. Thank you again. I really

Nicole Christina [00:30:34]:
appreciate it. Jen. Thank you for learning about food disorders in midlife and living fabulously without guilt