The Dynamic Duo of Retirement: Gil and Gene from “Retire There”

Transcript for “The Dynamic Duo of Retirement,” Gil and Gene from “Retire There with Gil and Gene”

Jen Hardy [00:00:11]:

Welcome to the fabulous over 50 Podcast. We are here to uplift, encourage, and empower women to live their best lives. I’m your host, Jen Hardy, and whether you live on an island in the mountains, in the suburbs, or an apartment in the inner city, living a fabulous life is all about mindset. And today we’ve got two fabulous guests talking about their mindset. It’s a couple with an amazing podcast.

Jen Hardy [00:00:40]:

I know you’re going to want to.

Jen Hardy [00:00:41]:

Listen to, but first, let me tell you a little bit about them. Gile Chen was born in Brazil to Chinese parents and grew up in Brooklyn, New York. She and her husband Jean have a son, Max, and Gile received a bachelor’s in Mechanical engineering from Pratt Institute and a law degree from Rutgers at Newark. And she was employed in both fields until her retirement one and a half years ago. Because Gill’s a rock star who loves learning, she’s now taking university courses in art and reviving her creative interests, including designing jewelry and making stained glass. Jean was born and raised in Long Island, New York, and he attained a bachelor’s degree from the State University of New York, a Master’s in Library science, and a law degree from Rutgers. He’s there law library director for a state appellate court in New York City. He’s also run 16 marathons, but says a knee injury relegate him to eating napping and riding his peloton bike. He misses the punk rock of his youth, but yearns to retire and explore the world and the arts with Gile. What a power couple. But more importantly to me anyway, is that they’re a genuinely good couple who love each other. And not only that, but they’re creative because they planned on traveling the world to decide where to retire in 2020.

Jen Hardy [00:01:59]:

And you know how that turned out.

Jen Hardy [00:02:02]:

But being highly motivated people, they discovered how to travel the world from home through podcasting. They created their podcast called Retire There with Gile and Jean, where they interview guests who have moved to new destinations in their retirement. That’s how I met them, because we talked about this amazing paradise that I lived in, and I said, oh, my gosh, you guys, I love you so much. You’ve got to come on my show, because I know my audience is going to love you as much as I do.

Jen Hardy [00:02:28]:

So that’s enough of the introduction.

Jen Hardy [00:02:30]:

Here they are. All right, guys, I am so excited.

Jen Hardy [00:02:35]:

To have you here, and I love your podcast.

Jen Hardy [00:02:38]:

Can you tell me how you decided to start it?

Gil Chan [00:02:41]:

Sure. Thank you for having us, and we really appreciate it. So our podcast is called Retire There with Gile and Jean, and it’s been about two years in the running. We started this because Gene and I know that when we retire, when both of us retire, because right now it’s only me, and he’ll join me in about a year or so that we want to move out of Brooklyn, New York, whether it be the weather or just the chaos. And we know that we can get more for less money elsewhere. So we embarked on our travel visits in 2020, and we went to Florida, we went to Winter Park, and we utterly enjoyed our little visit. But I started feeling, I don’t know, anxious whether it was the right place for us or am I giving up big old New York, even though we don’t go anywhere to check out the sites ever? Well, partly that’s me because I like to stay at home a lot. But then we came back and said, let’s go to our next place and COVID hit. So Gene, who loves radio anything, said, let’s start a podcast. And I said, let’s not, because I know that tons of work will be involved. And I didn’t even know where to begin. But he figured it out, and I said, if you can figure it out, it was like a challenge, then I will join you. And he said, yeah, I’ll figure it out. And he did. So that’s how it got started.

Gene Preudhomme [00:04:17]:

Yeah, I love the fact that having a podcast is sort of like pirate radio, but it’s legal and we don’t have any bosses, so it’s great.

Gil Chan [00:04:25]:

Yeah, we’re all boss, which is good.

Jen Hardy [00:04:27]:

Yeah, I love it. And I love that you did that. That seems like such a great concept.

Jen Hardy [00:04:32]:

You two decided to do this podcast together.

Jen Hardy [00:04:35]:

Had you podcasted before you started?

Gil Chan [00:04:39]:

No.

Gene Preudhomme [00:04:41]:

Yeah, and I didn’t really want to do it because I don’t like speaking publicly so much. And also I have the face for radio. All right. So I thought it might be a video, but luckily Gil said no, it’s just going to be audio. But Gile is a great speaker, but she said she wouldn’t do it without me, so here I am. Yeah, it’s been fun. It’s been fun.

Gil Chan [00:05:08]:

He’s more invested, I think, even though this is I call it his project, his podcast. So he is very much more invested, I think. But if you’re going to put something out, you have to do it professionally. So I think we do give it our all. Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:05:26]:

That’s great. Well, I love it. I’ve listened to your podcast. I love it, and I love the amount of detail that you put into it. So someone really knows, is this a place I would want? I could afford the climate. You cover all the things, so that’s great. What are some of the favorite destinations that you’ve talked about on your podcast or your favorite episodes?

Gil Chan [00:05:45]:

So right now it seems to be trending in terms of listeners.

Gene Preudhomme [00:05:50]:

Your favorite?

Gil Chan [00:05:52]:

My favorite. You go, do you have a favorite.

Gene Preudhomme [00:05:57]:

For the United States? I liked Santa Fe, New Mexico, which was, I believe, only our fourth podcast. But it seemed like a really cool place. But there are so many places I listen to. We do the broadcast and it’s over. And I say, wow, I’d love to move there. So we can’t move everywhere. You can only move one place, right? Or a few places, right?

Gil Chan [00:06:20]:

I think my favorite might be Portugal or Spain, because it sounds like there very welcoming. They value people more. So the health systems seem wonderful. They’re very welcoming and kind of want to help you as much as possible, even though you’re a foreigner. So to me, the people that have moved to these places have found that to be very true. The cost of living is a lot lower. You can eat for, like, $10 a day for all your meals, and that’s a big issue. As you’re retiring. You’re always worried about whether you have enough money, so I think that’s one of my favorites.

Gene Preudhomme [00:07:07]:

And internationally, for me, I was surprised. I really seem to love Thailand. It seems like such a laid back pace. The people seem to be really lovely, and the climate seems good. I think it’d be a great place.

Gil Chan [00:07:22]:

Yeah. For me, domestically. And you can cut all this out if we’re talking too much.

Jen Hardy [00:07:28]:

No, I like it.

Gene Preudhomme [00:07:29]:

Okay.

Gil Chan [00:07:30]:

Because she’s going to air some of this. I think for me, if I had the money, I would retire to Monterey, California.

Jen Hardy [00:07:40]:

Beautiful.

Gil Chan [00:07:42]:

It’s so diverse. Number one, I want to feel like I fit in. I don’t want to have to deal with people asking me, Where are you from? And I’ll say, Brooklyn. And they’ll say, Where are you really from? And I’ll say, well, actually, I was born in Brazil because my parents from China immigrated. And they still say, but what are you? And I’ll say, I know what you want to hear, so why don’t I start there? I’ll just say China. Does that answer your question? And so I get that so often.

Gene Preudhomme [00:08:11]:

Even though you’ve never been to China.

Gil Chan [00:08:13]:

Never been. But at the end of the day, I would say California or even San Francisco. But that’s a bit far from the rest of my family. My parents are past, but my siblings are all around, and I just psychologically want to be around. Plus, our son, we basically want to stalk him. And he’s in Rhode Island right now, so we’ll see if he moves somewhere else. We might be where he is or close by.

Jen Hardy [00:08:44]:

And I think that’s so important because before my husband and I moved here to retire, we knew we wanted to live somewhere, and we were thinking that we were going to live internationally. And Spain was the place that I had chosen because it just seemed so amazing. But in hindsight, I’m really glad we stayed there because we have seven children, and one of them is living internationally, but the other four adults are in different states, and just getting them to Florida is hard. I can’t imagine getting them to another country.

Gil Chan [00:09:13]:

True.

Jen Hardy [00:09:14]:

So for us, this turned out, and I know, it was interesting. They were a little bit agitated, and I think that is an understatement that we left them. But they kept saying they were going to leave Tennessee, and so we said, well, if you’re going to leave anyway, we want to go. So we’ll go ahead and go, and then you can feel free to go. And did they go? No.

Gil Chan [00:09:37]:

Really?

Jen Hardy [00:09:38]:

They say, well, yeah, one has gone because his fiance got a free ride to law school. But, yeah, the one that really was going to go is still there and was so frustrated. But you got to do what you got to do with the information that you’ve got. Exactly. But I love that anyone listening. Okay, so what’s the name of your podcast again? We’re going to say it several times so that everyone listening remembers and they can listen to it after this.

Gil Chan [00:10:07]:

It’s called Retire there with Gill and Jean, but the website is Retirethair.com. And that’s all, like, basically one word, retirethair.com.

Jen Hardy [00:10:18]:

Okay.

Gil Chan [00:10:18]:

Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:10:18]:

Because if you’re considering retiring somewhere or moving somewhere else, and I think you put a human spin on that. So, yes, you can look it up through other websites that have all the facts. Right. But if you don’t just want facts so interestingly, before we moved here, we thought we would stay at Airbnb in a room with a person who lives here to really be able to talk to someone who lives here, which was an utter nightmare. I don’t recommend that.

Gil Chan [00:10:51]:

You have to be in their schedule, I guess. Right.

Jen Hardy [00:10:53]:

Oh, my goodness. So I was talking to my daughter on the phone in a bedroom with the door closed, like, I’m talking to you, not loud. She came. It was 930. It banging on the door. I have to work in the morning. What are you doing in there? Time to go to bed. It was 930 on a Saturday. It was the weirdest thing. But the good news was we did get a lot of information about this area, about where we did want to go, where we didn’t want to go. The things that realtors won’t tell you. Right. They can’t say, don’t live on the other side of that street. You don’t ever want to be on the east side of that. Whatever. They can’t say that, but people will. So definitely, yeah, that was helpful. And so I think your human perspective and listening to people really tell the ups and the downs and the goods and the bads, I think that’s good because every town has good and bad, right?

Gene Preudhomme [00:11:41]:

Sure.

Gil Chan [00:11:42]:

Yeah. By the way, we should tell your audience and hope to be more people listening that we recorded you and your husband Dave, and you guys are fabulous and we love your story and we love where you move to. So we hope to release that episode soon and everyone will know your story even more than they already know.

Jen Hardy [00:12:03]:

Yeah, definitely. And I will put in the show notes. I’ll put a link to that because we’ll release around the same time. And I will definitely have links to your podcast and your website and everything because I think what you’re doing is great. I love the fact that you’re doing it as a couple because I know when Dave and I are looking at doing things, my perspective as a woman and his perspective as a man are very different. Regardless that society tells you we are all the same. We are not. And so I like that you’re getting both of those. So what do you think makes it different? I don’t know. Is there a way that you both look at things a little bit differently or things that one of you may be looking for that’s different from the other one?

Gil Chan [00:12:44]:

Oh, my God.

Gene Preudhomme [00:12:46]:

Yes.

Gil Chan [00:12:47]:

Resounding yes. We’re kind of quite opposite. And we have we’re the same in.

Gene Preudhomme [00:12:57]:

A lot of ways.

Gil Chan [00:12:57]:

Well, we’re the same in a lot of ways, which brought us together. We share the same values and all the important things that keep a couple together. I mean, we’ve been together over 30 some odd years.

Gene Preudhomme [00:13:10]:

No, we haven’t.

Gil Chan [00:13:11]:

Yes, we have. We met in 1996. No, we had our child. We met in 1989.

Gene Preudhomme [00:13:24]:

Child of 99, by the way.

Gil Chan [00:13:26]:

Yeah, our child was born in 1999, isn’t it?

Gene Preudhomme [00:13:29]:

Yeah.

Gil Chan [00:13:29]:

Anyway, so you see how different we are. We can’t even agree on anything. We met in 1989. We were both in law school, and that was my second year. I remember.

Gene Preudhomme [00:13:45]:

So we’ve been together. Yes.

Gil Chan [00:13:47]:

I consider that married best is over 25 years. I guess, to answer your question, first of all, I agree that having two people’s perspectives is golden. We come to these issues quite differently because we’re genuinely different. Right. And I think Gene is much more black and white. This is my opinion. He’s like, Get to the point. When I tell a story, I kind of want to lay the land. I want to give people a little background so that they can join me on the story. He’s like, Get to the point. I’m like, well, they don’t have the kind of setting that I want them to appreciate.

Gene Preudhomme [00:14:32]:

I’ll be kicking her under the table and make her go faster.

Gil Chan [00:14:35]:

Yeah. And then I hit him after the show. Jen we really do hit each other during the show. Sometimes he’ll bring in some obscure question and I’m like, all right, it’s an hour. We’re at the hour mark. And I’m the one that has to edit all the UMS and odds because he says a lot of UMS and odds. And so he doesn’t get it. I edit so much of him because it’s just he’s comfortable and he doesn’t realize and I’m thinking editing. Editing.

Jen Hardy [00:15:04]:

Okay.

Gil Chan [00:15:04]:

I’m sorry.

Gene Preudhomme [00:15:05]:

I don’t know why. Are we different?

Jen Hardy [00:15:07]:

No, but that’s okay. When you were interviewing us, I was squeezing Dave sam so hard.

Gil Chan [00:15:16]:

Oh, my God. That’s why he wasn’t so talkative.

Gene Preudhomme [00:15:22]:

I think one of the things that makes our show good is that Gil makes up of things which I’m not good at and vice versa. And I think she’s a really good speaker.

Gil Chan [00:15:34]:

See, I have to pull the mic over to him because he’s sitting at an angle.

Gene Preudhomme [00:15:39]:

She’s a really good speaker. And what am I good at? I don’t know. You’re great.

Gil Chan [00:15:44]:

Well, Gene, by nature well, his employment is he’s a law librarian these days. That means you’re not looking at books or putting away books anymore. It’s all technology, everything’s online. So you have to know where to go to research. And we have to do a ton of research for our show. We have to find guests who have moved from one location to another, so everyone listening. If you know anyone who’s moved anywhere, whether it’s across the street well, not across the street, but to another town, another city, another state, another country, we would love to hear from them. And so finding those people can be difficult. And so his skills come into play. He’s searching everywhere online. We have to be creative in our research because if you just Google where to retire, you’ll get basically articles from Forbes, Kiplinger’s, all these places, and they’re not going to reveal experiences of people. So I have to give him a lot of credit for that. And I think we both do a ton of research after as well. We have to vet our guests. We don’t do a deep dive. We don’t order public records, first of all, that would be so costly. But we try to get to know them a little because, honestly, we don’t want to put anyone that’s going to tick anyone off or say something really politically bad. So we don’t cover politics, and we basically have a genuine coffee chat, if you will. I don’t think I still answered your question.

Gene Preudhomme [00:17:29]:

Our differences.

Jen Hardy [00:17:30]:

Yeah. So, Gene, what do you see your differences being?

Gene Preudhomme [00:17:35]:

Okay. Gil is much more outgoing, even though she’ll tell you she doesn’t like people. I don’t, but she’s really good with them. I’m more laid back. She is Type A personality. I’m more relaxed. And I think that’s good for the show, though. I think you need both aspects. Yeah, I think that’s the main thing.

Jen Hardy [00:18:04]:

Yeah, I think that’s great. And I just love how you bounce things off of each other. I don’t know. Do you remember when Harry met Sally and they had all these different couples that had died?

Gene Preudhomme [00:18:13]:

That was great. Yeah.

Jen Hardy [00:18:14]:

I always feel like that’s. Dave and I, we finish each other’s sentences, we have the same story, but sometimes now things come out a little differently. He thinks one thing like you did with the dates or whatever, and I just think that adds something, though. It adds a depth to listening. Then I don’t know. It’s good banter and it’s good for other people to see, and I think it’s great for people to see a couple and a man that’s willing to do things. I mean, you obviously love your wife and I think that’s a great thing for people to see because we need more men that obviously love their wives. I think Dave loves me. We love to be together and it’s just nice to see other couples like that. And it’s nice for other men, I think, because the era that we grew up in and before, mostly before, was that I do my man thing and you do your woman thing, whatever. And Mary, the twain shall meet. So it’s good that we can come together and have a good time and do that. Are you planning on retiring and moving in the near future or?

Gene Preudhomme [00:19:20]:

Yes, in the future. I am dying to retire. I love my job, but I’ve had enough. And the commute that we live in New York City and the commute is tough. That’s probably the toughest thing about my job. I love my job. I have a year and a half because if I retire earlier, I’ll lose a lot on my pension. So I’m hanging in there. And I love New York City. I love that I grew up around here, but I’ve always wanted to be somewhere else. I want somewhere with nature and just somewhere to explore. Yeah, like I say, I love being from New York City, but I want to say grew up there. That’s it. But it’s been a long time that when we met, I had planned to move to there, Pacific Northwest, and then I met Gil, so I’m still here.

Jen Hardy [00:20:21]:

So anywhere you move is going to be very different for a little while.

Gene Preudhomme [00:20:28]:

And I’m going to embrace that. I embrace differences because I remember I.

Jen Hardy [00:20:33]:

Moved from the La orange county area out into the country in Tennessee when we first moved there. But I did. I loved every bit of it. I threw myself into it. But I know a lot of people have a really hard time, but I think after all of this, it’s going to be easy. So have you narrowed it down? Do you have different ideas of where you want to go?

Gil Chan [00:20:54]:

Yeah, so we want to have a home base in the US. Partly because my reason is I also have a lot of other artistic related things going on and I want to have a studio where I can kind of flush out all these things. Right now I’m learning printmaking and I can see myself spending the next I don’t know how many years doing it, but it’s something that you really ought to have a studio to do for everything properly. So if we were to move for instance, if we were to move abroad, I couldn’t lug all this stuff around and I wouldn’t want to. Jean he’s more than happy. He’s always been supportive of anything that I’ve gone into or looked into. I mean, that’s so wonderful to have that mate who supports. Right. And my family is here and our son is here. So what we thought the best balance would be to find a home in the US. And then we would hopefully live abroad, maybe three months at a time or more, depending on where we go. We’ve amassed so many friendships through the podcast. We basically have a home to go to in every country, and it’s been wonderful. So we think that we’ve learned so much from these podcasts and we kind of know what visas to get and where we can get them. It’s just a matter of figuring out what’s best for our finances, because if we keep the place in the United States, there’s going to be a cost there. Although we plan to sell a house and hopefully make a profit from that because property is really skyrocketing anywhere around here, and then we can just plunk down on a home and go from there.

Gene Preudhomme [00:22:53]:

Yeah. Gil wants to live near her sisters who live in Pennsylvania, but near Wilmington, Delaware. And although that wouldn’t be my first choice, like I say, I love Santa Fe, New Mexico, but it’s fine with me. And one of the big things we learned about the podcast is to go somewhere where you can really enjoy what you’re doing. Like Gil says, she loves art and I’d love to take some college courses. So we’d like to be in a college town down there. That’s one of the big things we learned near a college town. And I would also love to be somewhere where there’s a little downtown, a place you can get you walk to, maybe get a coffee. I love typical Main streets. And so that’s basically so we haven’t decided exactly where we’re going to be, but that’s what we’ve decided so far.

Gil Chan [00:23:44]:

Yeah. And the reason why I say the East Coast is not just my family, because I’m one of seven. I’m the oldest of seven, and I know you have seven kids, and it’s tough. And we grew up without any money as a gene, so we have a lot in common. But we do want to be near our child. We had one, and I think that was why, because from a family of seven, I only wanted one or zero. And we’re very close. We talk all the time. He texts us. The three of us are very close, and so we wouldn’t want to just move abroad and then have him come to see us maybe only once or twice a year, given his busy job and then us coming back. So we just thought that would be the happy balance.

Jen Hardy [00:24:37]:

That sounds really great. I love that.

Gil Chan [00:24:40]:

We’ll see how it goes.

Jen Hardy [00:24:43]:

Yeah, it’s interesting because we’re retired early, which is great. I still have my business, but it’s at home. I can decide how much I work, which is nice, but the retirement that we have set up is for two people who are retired, but we have young kids and they require other things. It does play a part in where you decide to retire as well because you need to. The home we got with the yard we got had something to do with children and all that.

Gene Preudhomme [00:25:21]:

Yeah. I don’t understand how you do it all with you home school. That must take so much time.

Jen Hardy [00:25:27]:

Well, it’s been interesting. So I’ve had the podcast and I’ve been writing books over the last eight years. I’ve been doing all these things in my spare time, which sounds so silly when I say it because there is no spare time. But since Dave retired about a year and a half ago, now he helps. So that’s been nice. He does math with my son and helps take them where they need to go. So now I can focus a little more time on working and then he can do that. I will say it wasn’t his choice. He is medically retired. I think when we first got married, he said, oh my gosh, I wish you could go work and I could be with the kids and I’d home school them and I’d be with them all the time. It’d be so much fun. And now that he has the opportunity, he says, oh, wow, I wish I could go back to work and you could do this because it is a lot. But it’s good that he could see it because a lot of guys don’t get a chance to see what it’s really like and they think, oh my gosh, you’re home with them all day, what do you possibly do? And he’s going, oh, my goodness, I can’t get anything done. At the end of the day, I don’t know what to happen. Which is the thing that women say all the time, and men are like, oh, seriously, I’ve been working. And we’re like, but I was working, I promise I didn’t sit down. So? Yeah. I don’t know. I was talking to somebody else and they were saying, I don’t feel like I do that much. But I don’t know, I guess you.

Gil Chan [00:26:49]:

Don’T even know because you’re so used to it.

Jen Hardy [00:26:52]:

And apparently I am a type A personality. It’s funny, when I was listening to the two of you talk, I thought, you’re very similar to Dave and I because I want it like this and we’ll do this and we’ll do this and he’s sitting back going, hey, it’s all going to work out. It’s going to be fine. I don’t know why you worry and it does, because honestly, he swoops in behind me at the very end when I’ve about lost it and calmly gets it all done. But it’s good because we can work together.

Gil Chan [00:27:21]:

Yes, I get a little crazy and Jean’s like, you know, it’s going to work out. You’ve Gene, through this before and it’s worked out. What is wrong with you? I’m like, there’s nothing wrong with this. It only worked out because I fretted, right?

Jen Hardy [00:27:34]:

Oh, my gosh. I feel like we could just put that on record and then play it over and over.

Gil Chan [00:27:38]:

Right?

Jen Hardy [00:27:40]:

So there’s a couple of questions that I wanted to ask because I want to start asking people that have hit a certain age. And I’m not going to assume that you’ve hit over 50, but let’s say you’re our ages.

Gene Preudhomme [00:27:52]:

I’m 60.

Gil Chan [00:27:53]:

Yes. And I am nine months older than Gene. I’m 61. Okay.

Jen Hardy [00:27:58]:

I’m two and a half years older than Dave, and we got married. I was turning 40, and I was like, I don’t even care. My husband is younger and he whatever he thinks I’m pretty. It’s all good.

Gil Chan [00:28:11]:

I was so proud because I was saying I want to make sure that my legacy is I retired before 60. And guess what? I was 59.5.

Jen Hardy [00:28:21]:

God.

Gil Chan [00:28:22]:

Right in.

Jen Hardy [00:28:23]:

There you go. That’s awesome. Yeah. And it’s not easy to do, so that is really cool.

Gil Chan [00:28:28]:

Thank you.

Jen Hardy [00:28:29]:

So what’s something for each of you? Because I think this will be good to get both of your perspective, something that you thought was so important in your young adulthood that now you realize really didn’t matter that much.

Gil Chan [00:28:42]:

Okay, so for me, it was. And I know I shouldn’t have thought of this, but I was always conscious of what people thought about, thought of me and my family. Wherever we went, there would be seven of us, like a horde, a group. And where we lived, there weren’t many Asians, so we kind of stood out and people kind of looked at us. And I was always kind of embarrassed by my parents, especially if they spoke Chinese in public and loud. That’s what a lot of Cantonese people do. And I would say, Shh, if we were on the subway, like, stop it, stop it there. Like, what are you worried about? They don’t understand us. I’m like, but that’s the whole point. You’re so loud, you’re over talking. There conversations. But as I got older, I came to realize how important my parents were and to us and how they took care of us. I’m like, Welling, up here, but who cares what people think, right? I mean, people say that, and it’s a lot harder to think of why I did what I did back then. But I’m less concerned, although I am still depending on where we go. We’re a biracial couple, and I still feel sometimes whether when someone kind of looks at us but I care less. I will say I definitely care less. And I think it’s not that important, right? Just let it go. Okay, Gene?

Gene Preudhomme [00:30:25]:

Okay. So I have to say, Jen sent us these you sent us these questions, this question ahead of time. And I wrote the exact same answer as Gil.

Gil Chan [00:30:33]:

You did? Yeah.

Gene Preudhomme [00:30:35]:

I didn’t look at his and it’s again what people thought of me. My parents, neither one of them finished high school, and so I guess the SIM would go. I was a little embarrassed about them, which I shouldn’t have been. There were such hard workers and great people and I was always concerned when people thought of me in around town, they don’t have money, blah, blah. And now I’m so proud of that. And who cares what people think? You be yourself. And as long as you’re a good person, be yourself. I’m just so happy now.

Jen Hardy [00:31:12]:

That’s so great. That is so great. And the whole mixed couple I don’t know, I wouldn’t even think of it if I saw you two together. I wouldn’t think I don’t know. But it just blows my mind that people still give someone a hard time because they look in a way that is not the same as I don’t know. But my dad growing up, my dad’s best friend was Japanese. He lived in Japan. And now my best friend is Japanese. She lives in Japan. Totally unrelated. It’s so interesting. We were next door neighbors in Tennessee, and even after four years of being apart, we still talk every Saturday night. Our kids play minecraft every Saturday night. Oh, it’s so nice, but it’s so amazing. But when she was out here, people would make comments to her daughter and I thought, is that a still a thing? I don’t even understand why. I don’t know. So I will say, for all the humans that ever made you feel bad, I’m sorry. And I just think it’s a horrible thing. For real. I don’t know. I feel like this is 2023.

Gil Chan [00:32:09]:

I know.

Jen Hardy [00:32:12]:

I get that you have that feeling. I just don’t get why anyone else ever would have made you have it. And it makes me sad.

Gil Chan [00:32:18]:

Yeah, it happens and it is what.

Gene Preudhomme [00:32:21]:

It is because I can say that. I think it’s because people want to feel like they’re better than others and they always want to think to somebody lower than them. That’s what I think.

Gil Chan [00:32:32]:

Well, and also it’s really location like your experience allowed you, your father and your friend in Japan allowed you to meet these people and you didn’t think of what they were. Right. And then the more you became friendlier with them, the more you realize, hey, we’re not really different except for maybe things we like. But yeah, even our child who he’s mixed, but he clearly comes across as, you know, he’s mixed and you know that and he looks more Asian. But in high school and even in middle school, he experienced some of this nonsense. And I think it comes from the growing up and it’s allowed or it’s condoned. And I always say there’s so many Asians, especially in New York, but it really depends on where you are in parts of New York. In Brooklyn, however, I will say it’s very different. Like Park Slope, Brooklyn, for example. I could walk around there, no one would even notice me. So I love it there. But I know Gene shaking.

Gene Preudhomme [00:33:46]:

I don’t like it there because there.

Gil Chan [00:33:48]:

Are a lot of snooty people there. They’re over educated, but that could be it, too. A lot of education brings a lot of traveling, a lot of broad knowledge and experiences. So maybe they are what they are. Okay.

Jen Hardy [00:34:05]:

Because I feel like growing up in La.

Gil Chan [00:34:06]:

Too.

Jen Hardy [00:34:06]:

Yeah. In the la. Area, California, I was in the minority, so I know what that feels like. We’re in the area that I was in, and so I would never want anyone to feel whatever because yeah, whatever. I don’t know. Anyway, moving on. What is something that you both miss from your youth?

Gil Chan [00:34:27]:

My answer would be I spent more time with my siblings and had a lot of fun. We stayed at home a lot because we didn’t have much money. So we would invent these little games, we always made up little homes on our bed, for example, we made a little sofa, we made little pillows, and that’s where we would sleep. Kind of like playing Doll House, but with real people. And as we got older, we all kind of went our own ways, and we don’t quite have that anymore. And when we get together, we’re silly and it’s fun. So I would say for my youth, it would be family time. I kind of miss that lately. Maybe because I’ve retired. I’m thinking more about that.

Gene Preudhomme [00:35:16]:

You make my answer sound not so good, but anyway, here I go. I miss New York City in the late, late night I’m sorry. I miss New York City in the late 1970s and early 80s. It was dirty and it was unsafe, but it was cheap and so much fun. Now it’s really expensive, but it’s like Disneyland. Everything seems the same harmonicized and I don’t know. It was a great place.

Gil Chan [00:35:44]:

Wow.

Gene Preudhomme [00:35:44]:

Now it was dangerous. Like, taking the subway late at night after midnight was a little dangerous, but it was a great place.

Gil Chan [00:35:53]:

Yeah, that’s a great answer.

Jen Hardy [00:35:55]:

Yeah, that’s a good answer. Yeah. There is no wrong answer. None of these questions have a wrong answer. That’s the thing. And the opposite of that is what has been the biggest blessing of growing older? I mean, we’re not old. I don’t mean old, but older.

Gil Chan [00:36:08]:

Yes. Well, that’s a big one. I think certainly you’re wiser, you’re more confident, you know what you know, you know what you don’t know, and you implement your knowledge much better. You actually can figure out things and not freak out. Back when we were going to school and there was an assignment, we would say, are we going to finish it? Are we going to whatever. And now it’s more well, we know we have to do that in advance, and if the system goes down, we know we can get around that or use another system. You have learned so much over the years that it’s been one of the best things. Now, I just want to mention, and you probably heard of this, the happiness curve, or read about it, and this is evidence that there’s a U shaped curve that you embark on when you’re young and it starts to go downhill until your midlife or whatever that point is, and then it starts to go up. So I was so happy to hear about this because so far it’s been true. I think I hit my downpoint about six months after retirement. In that year, I would say I was depressed, I was anxious, and it took me a while to realize that, I think, because when the concept of getting old means eventually you’ll die. And if you focus on that too much, getting old can be scary. But you think about this happiness curve and people start to know about themselves more. Learn your quote unquote inner self and it can only go up. So I feel that’s happening to me now. I’m much happier. I was just saying to Gene that yesterday was one of the happiest days of my life and I didn’t do anything spectacular, but it was just a great day, good weather, and we got a lot done. So I think it’s the wisdom and all the knowledge that you’ve gained.

Gene Preudhomme [00:38:38]:

So for me, I think it’s the knowledge, like you say, it’s the knowledge I’ve gained from all the mistakes I’ve made in my life. And Lord knows, Gil, I’ve made a lot of mistakes. But yeah, so that’s what it is. It’s the knowledge from just life, living your life.

Jen Hardy [00:38:55]:

Well, I think there is a gold dugget in what you just said. I mean, completely in that when you’re younger and you make a mistake, you dwell on it, it lives in you, you become the mistake.

Gil Chan [00:39:08]:

It’s this huge thing.

Jen Hardy [00:39:09]:

But what you’re saying is, no, I’ve grown from that. So now we make a mistake and we’re like, Well, I made another mistake. But before it was like I never thought I would make a mistake like that. I think it’s a whole different perspective shift.

Gil Chan [00:39:22]:

Yeah. You acknowledge it and that’s true.

Jen Hardy [00:39:24]:

Yeah. So I think that’s really brilliant because I feel like I handle that differently. I really sat in things and dwelled on them for a long time before, and I think I’m better about that now, every once in a while. But anyway, you can’t help it.

Gil Chan [00:39:39]:

You kind of slip into it and then you just I try to remember also that I had down days when I worked, but because you had to keep go back and every day continue, you didn’t have time to dwell on it. Whereas even though we’re busy now with the podcast and all our other projects, it’s very different and you just have to pace yourself.

Jen Hardy [00:40:07]:

Yeah, that’s really good. And then we already kind of hit on this. I was going to ask what changed for you since you turned 50? We kind of talked about that a little bit, but is there anything that’s changed that we haven’t talked about that.

Gil Chan [00:40:16]:

You feel is noting? I know we can’t use profanity on the show, but I’ll just say I give less F’s and take more risks in my career. Part of my job involved undertaking investigations, and sometimes the results would be bad, it would be bad for management, it would be bad for the head of the organization. But over time and this comes with age, I knew that what I did was the right thing, that it would allow me to sleep at night and if it meant suffering or being gaslit, which I experienced almost to the point of quitting, that I knew. And I hung on to my principles. And for me, turning 50 gave me that confidence and the ability to do that without feeling bad, without making excuses for people. So taking on those risks I wouldn’t have taken when I was younger. Anything else?

Gene Preudhomme [00:41:29]:

Well, for me it’s a little different. I love running. I’ve run 16 marathons, and after I hit 50, I had a knee injury, so I can no longer run long distances. Although medically, I’m going to see if I can do something about that. So now I ride on the Pelton bike and it’s great, but it’s not the same as running. I really did get that high from running. And also I’m in much worse shape than I used to be when I ran. So that’s what it is for me, I guess that’s part of getting older. You’re more susceptible to injuries and that’s not a fun part of getting old.

Gil Chan [00:42:09]:

Yeah, no, that, I have to say, is horrible. When I was younger, I always set these bars. I would say, oh, I’m only 30 something. And Jane Fonda didn’t release her videos until she was in her 40s. So I said, oh, I can start exercising in my forty s. And my 40s came, did nothing. I’m a very sedentary person. I mean, look at me, look at the size of me. And I’ve always tried to lose weight, although I love eating desserts. So how can I love trying to lose weight when I love eating dessert and anything good but my knees are acting up. I’ve been going to physical therapy. So the clock is against you in terms of that if you don’t do something about it. Now, I know I should be doing something about it, but I don’t. And now I go, well, look, Jane Fonda is how old is she now? She’s like 80. Yeah. And she’s exercising. So I still have like another 1015 years before I start. Yeah, that’s part of I wish I could kind of have done earlier.

Jen Hardy [00:43:18]:

Yeah. Gene, I will give you advice about this knee thing if you decide to get a knee replacement or partial replacement. Dave did it and he did not take care of himself and he did not let me take care of him. And then he had to go back in and have it redone.

Gene Preudhomme [00:43:32]:

Oh, my goodness.

Jen Hardy [00:43:33]:

And it’ll never be fine. It will never be fine because of what he did. So if you do it and if you’re listening, you know, anyone, take the time, let yourself rest, and then do the work to make it better. Because you can’t just jump up like Superman three days later.

Gil Chan [00:43:51]:

That’s good to know.

Gene Preudhomme [00:43:52]:

Well, all the doctors have told me not to get the surgery yet.

Jen Hardy [00:43:56]:

And if they say, yeah, don’t get it until you absolutely you cannot walk without it. Because I think he could have waited and he was in his forty s and then he fell. It was a thing.

Gene Preudhomme [00:44:09]:

That’s too bad.

Jen Hardy [00:44:10]:

Yeah. Just treat those treat it very carefully. And since your parents parenting is so different, we were talking about this a little bit because I had my first daughter in 89, I had my last son in 2011. So this is crazy. I’ve had children in four decades. Eighty s, ninety s, two thousand s, and two thousand and ten s. Wow. Yeah. Isn’t that crazy? By the time I was it’s not a lot of people I don’t know are crazy enough, I guess. But parenting was so different back then that it is now. And so I have to give props to parents who are having babies now, because the world is a wild place to raise a child in. But what is a piece of advice that you could give to a young parent that would make their job easier? Her for a mom or him for a dad? I think getting both of your perspectives on this one is really important.

Gil Chan [00:45:04]:

Yeah, I was thinking about this, and there were so many things that came to mind, but I couldn’t pinpoint anything in particular that other than accepting help. If people want to help, because you need to learn to trust that your child will be taken care of. And that’s something that you really have to kind of vet out. My mother helped with that for the first almost two years when we had our son Max, and it was wonderful, but her health started to interfere and so we put him in the preschool.

Gene Preudhomme [00:45:51]:

Was it a preschool daycare?

Gil Chan [00:45:52]:

Daycare preschool. And that was really tough. As soon as we let go of his hand, they tell you, duck. So when he turns around, he doesn’t see you. And it was so hard. So I think, try to get help when you can, when you can afford it. I mean, we were both working. We didn’t have a choice. My mom was, at that point, unable to continue helping. But I read all these articles about what would help a young mother, taking time for yourself. But I tried doing that. And in your mind, it’s like, well, how long is that going to take? I don’t have that much time to take for myself. So in hindsight, I would say try to do that. If and when you can, they say schedule it. But even if you schedule it, you know what your schedule is, and you’ll cancel it if you need to. But Gene had a great idea, and I’ll have him discuss it.

Gene Preudhomme [00:46:56]:

Mine’s simple, just if you can afford it, pay someone to clean your home. I think that the less you have to worry about things around you and just focus on your child or children, I think it’s so much better. And these days, you might be able to afford to have less one dinner out, and you may be able to afford to have your house clean maybe once a month or once every two weeks.

Jen Hardy [00:47:21]:

Yeah, I think honestly, that is the best advice, and I think more men need to hear that from a man, because this advice we got when my kids were younger, and so we were pretty poor when my older kids were younger, but that is something we did once a month. And it took such a burden off of me, because if I didn’t have them come once a month, I would have, for some reason, felt like every week I had to do a main clean, a big clean. But we still do it to this day. We have somebody come in and it’s good because the kids help out doing the things, but I’m not scrubbing toilets on my yeah, doing that, it’s very helpful. So thank you. I love that. That’s a good one. And then I think this is a good question for both of you to get different perspectives. What’s something that older women worry about that you don’t think they should?

Gil Chan [00:48:10]:

Okay, so this is something that I want to answer, and I hope it’s not a long answer for folks, but I remember after my father retire, he would sit in his house by the window and look out the window. And so once in a while, I’d go up to him and say, oh, what are you looking at? And he would say, I’m waiting for death. And I was so taken back by that response, and we were both very sarcastic people, and so my quick weighted response was, oh, let me know when it arrives. But to this day, I remember, and I get a chill from it. So in the last year or so of my thinking process, I will say older women should worry less about dying. Okay? Doctors always tell us, well, you’re going to die anyway, everyone dies. But what is it that concerns us about dying? Is it the pain that hopefully one won’t suffer or suffer too much of? Is it that you think time is of the essence? Now you have to constantly look at your calendar and say, oh, well, nowadays with technology, they think that we’re going to live to 100 or to 90. And years ago, we knew that from evidence that people died a lot younger. So now if we have all this time, why is it that I keep thinking, oh, I shouldn’t do this because I won’t have time to complete it? Well, who says we don’t know that? We don’t know when we’re going to draw, when we might become ill. And you’ve heard the phrase, oh, you might get hit by a truck tomorrow, and all that will be for not. So I think what I’ve done is by now, I retired a year and a half ago. And so one of the things I created to help lessen my fear of dying is I created what’s called I called a death list, all right? So it’s not a bucket list. It’s a death list. And these are things I want to do before I die or be prepared. And if I get this list off my plate, then I won’t be afraid if I drop out of the sky one day from a plane or whatever. And they include so I don’t want to forget this. I wrote this down. They include doing everything necessary in case I die unexpectedly. So create a password list, okay? Actually write it down. Don’t put it in your computer that someone can hack, but then write down where you put it, because that’s one big thing. I put things down when we go on vacation, I’m like, here’s where I’m hiding the keys. And then I’ll get home and say, well, where was it? It was so good. There were times where we forgot where we put things when we got home. So now I have to make a note of that. So put together your family and medical history for your children. Listeners to our podcast know that these are things that they’re must haves put together. Your proxy, your healthcare proxy, all these things that they’re on our to do list, we’ve done very little. I started to actually put together my password list, because now we all know that we have 8000 passwords. Everything that you go into, there’s a password, but most importantly, all your accounts. So if you can get that password list and your health proxy done, then you’re good. And on that list should be all your financial accounts. And put that somewhere that is not easily known. If someone breaks in your house, I don’t know why these things. You never know, they might happen. And the other thing I think women should really understand from my point of view, is that I’ve been reading so many articles and talking to therapists as well. They always say, after 50 or after you retire, find a purpose, okay? And to me, I interpreted that to me, and, oh my God, I have to find a cure for cancer. What is finding your purpose or is it that you have to find your purpose to exist on this planet? It’s become such a major burden for people. They say, oh, I’m retired. I don’t know what to do with myself. And people said to find a purpose, but I’ve been looking for a year, and I’m like, but what is the purpose? Right? Why didn’t we have to find a purpose before we retired? So think about that. Was your purpose before a job? Was your purpose before to make money? And so it’s not a quote, unquote purpose, and I just think that’s a wrong word for it. But find what makes you enjoy waking up. Why do you wake up in the morning? I wake up, and half the time I can’t get out of bed for some reason. Psychologically, I don’t know what it is. I know I have a lot to do, things to look forward to, but I can’t physically, psychologically, get out of bed. I don’t know. It’s like I’m depressed. So I’ve been signing up for a lot of courses to make me get out of bed because I don’t miss an appointment. So I’ve been taking art classes. I’ve been taking classes at university. So I should say women should know, or men, that most public universities in the United States offer free tuition, free courses. All right? You just have to find them, and you can contact the registrar, and they will tell you you can audit these classes. You’re sitting next to 1819 year olds.

Gene Preudhomme [00:54:15]:

Not all of as long as you don’t need the credits.

Gil Chan [00:54:18]:

Yeah, as long as you don’t need the credit. So you’re quote, unquote, auditing the class. You’re not paying 300 and hour for the credit, but you’re paying some small fee, like the universities that I’m going to charge $80 for a whole semester as the fee, and then I’ll pay, like, another 30 for parking for the semester, and you can take semester long courses in anything, learn a new language, whatever. I thought about volunteering, but I’ve done a lot of volunteering before in my life, and sure, it feels good to volunteer. I like helping people, but I am having a blast in painting in printmaking, so I think I want to pass that on to everyone. If you have any trouble finding a university or finding which office to contact at a university to see if there are these courses, feel free. Email me. I worked for a university the last 15 years of my life, so I know the ins and outs really well, and I know that was a very long answer, so I will shut up now.

Jen Hardy [00:55:30]:

That’s okay. I think that’s great. What about Eugene?

Gene Preudhomme [00:55:35]:

I think women should stop worrying. Older women should stop worrying about how they look. I just think an older woman who grows old gracefully is much more beautiful than somebody who gets cosmetic surgery yeah. Where their skin is all pulled back, like, you know, what they did. I don’t know. I just think it’s really women, older women are so beautiful, just grow old naturally.

Jen Hardy [00:56:05]:

I love that. He’s just being really he’s being cheap. He’s not being cheap. That’s the thing, right? It’s my neck. It’s from the jawline down. That’s my problem. Yeah, but I’m not doing it underarms in a blouse.

Gene Preudhomme [00:56:23]:

But you can’t really oh, my goodness. See what I mean?

Jen Hardy [00:56:27]:

But you know what? Every single one of us is thinking the same exact thing we’re all thinking. Yes, that’s it right there. To follow up, they say we shouldn’t sweat the small stuff and that it’s all small stuff. But what do you do to relax when things get stressful? I feel like you two are going to have completely different answers for this one.

Gil Chan [00:56:49]:

Okay, so I revert back to things my younger self enjoyed. I had subscriptions to the Archie’s comics. I love and still love Betty and Veronica. For some reason, I feel like they take me back to Riverdale and that their little issues were so cute and not serious. No one was ever dying or any of those things in Betty and Veronica’s life. And the other thing that really helps me destress is organize.

Jen Hardy [00:57:24]:

All right?

Gil Chan [00:57:25]:

I like creating labels. I buy a lot of things that help me organize things. And I feel like if I am organizing something, I’m, a, doing something with my time that’s productive, and b, less junk and chaos brings you calm. So that’s my answer.

Gene Preudhomme [00:57:48]:

Good answer for me, I think. I sort of talked about this earlier. Exercise really relaxes me. And as I said, I can no longer run. But I do have a peloton bike. Gil says I’m addicted to it, but I’m not.

Gil Chan [00:58:04]:

Oh, yeah. He knows everybody, every one of the trainers. And it’s like, oh, well. And they talk to people. They have this peloton code. Oh, did you see when Hannah did this or when this one did that?

Gene Preudhomme [00:58:18]:

Anyway, I do love the peloton, and it does relax me.

Jen Hardy [00:58:21]:

Great.

Gene Preudhomme [00:58:22]:

Yes.

Jen Hardy [00:58:22]:

See, I wish I was addicted to exercise. I feel like I would be in such good shape. Oh, my gosh. That is a problem that I think a lot of us would sign me up.

Gil Chan [00:58:32]:

I know they say, get that when you get that high, you have to go back. I guess I haven’t gotten the high yet.

Jen Hardy [00:58:36]:

I’ve never got the high. No, my high is more from cookies and popcorn, from exercise.

Gene Preudhomme [00:58:43]:

I love those and not the exercise.

Jen Hardy [00:58:45]:

But I wish I do. I have a lot of respect for that. I do wish it was well. Oh, my gosh, guys, you have been so good and so open and honest and wise, and I just love everything that you’re doing. So can you say one more time what is the name of your podcast and where people can find you? And I will have it in the show notes and on the website, too.

Gil Chan [00:59:04]:

Absolutely. Thank you so much. And we love being on Fabulous Over 50, by the way. So the website is retirethair.com. I’ll say the full is www.retirethair.com. We’re on Instagram, at retired there. Same for Twitter. And on Facebook, we have a retired there group. Yeah, on Facebook, we have a retired there. It’s not with Gile, not a group.

Gene Preudhomme [00:59:35]:

It’s just retire their group, retire their.

Gil Chan [00:59:37]:

Podcast, retire their podcast. Sorry, guys.

Jen Hardy [00:59:40]:

That’s awesome. All right. And we’ll have the links and yeah, that’ll be great. So you can just when you’re done listening, you click on it and go see everything that they’ve got and oh, my gosh, I just think it’s so brilliant. So thank you so much again for joining me today, and you guys are amazing. I can’t wait to talk to you again soon. Yeah, you too.

Gil Chan [00:59:58]:

Thanks so much, Jen.

Gene Preudhomme [01:00:00]:

Yeah, thanks so much. That was great.

Gil Chan [01:00:01]:

Take care.

Jen Hardy [01:00:02]:

You too.

Jen Hardy [01:00:03]:

Are they amazing or what? Oh, my gosh, they’re just such great people.

Jen Hardy [01:00:08]:

I really do want them to come.

Jen Hardy [01:00:09]:

Down and retire here so that we.

Jen Hardy [01:00:12]:

Can all hang out together in our retirement. Oh, my goodness. I love them so much. So you can find the links to.

Jen Hardy [01:00:18]:

Their podcast and everything they’re doing in the show notes and on the website. Jenhardy Net, I also wanted to remind you that Jen’s Friends is live. So if you or someone that you know is a woman, maybe she’s living alone or she’s just feeling kind of lonely, she needs a little pick me up. Jen’s Friends is a daily email that I send out to encourage, inspire and empower women to go out and live their best lives no matter what’s happening around them. So Jenhardy Net friends sign up. You’re going to love it. And next week, I’ve got something amazing lined up for my interview, but I really want you to stick around. On Friday, I’m going to be going live and starting a brand new, very exciting, super secret thing. So I’m at zgen Hardy everywhere on social. Check it out on Facebook because you’re going to love it. All right, thank you so much for sticking with us. This has been a long episode, but I knew you’d love it.

Gil Chan [01:01:26]:

Stay tuned.

Jen Hardy [01:01:28]:

Stay fabulous.