From Anxious to Secure Relationship: Julie Menanno’s Expert Tips

Jen Hardy  [00:00:00]:

Alright. Today, I am thrilled to have Julie Mannano back because she is an amazing person. And no matter what relationships you have and guaranteed you have some because you’re a person, she what you’re gonna hear today is going to help. I guarantee it in some way. So, Julie, let’s just start out with what made you decide to start talking about relationships?

Julie Menanno [00:00:23]:

Well, first of all, I’m just obsessed with relationships. I have a husband. I have 6 kids. And I kinda went into my parenting journey really reading all the parenting books out there and wanting to get it right. And that led me into going to grad school because I was like, well, none of this is really getting none of these books are really getting me there. So I just kinda need to learn how humans work on my own. And went to grad school with for psychology within, you know, a couple months, kinda fell in love with the roots of attachment theory and then later attachment theory, and just really dove into mastering this, you know, this conceptualization of relationships through the lens of attachment theory, which is really for me, it’s been a real game changer. Started working with individuals, ended up with couples even though that adamantly did not wanna do that at the beginning you know, when I went back to grad school.

Julie Menanno [00:01:20]:

No interest in couples work. Fell in love with couples work, was all in, all couples all the time, went and got training in the way that I work as a therapist with couples, which is basically attachment theory work, and just started experiencing a lot of success with it. Then in 2020, I I got onto Instagram kinda randomly, very randomly, didn’t even have my own personal account at that time. And, started I started reading, and I was like, wait. I have something to offer here. You know? When it comes to the attachment world, there’s just a lot of misinformation, a lot of incomplete information. And so I just started making little hand drawings because I had no idea how else to get, you know, visual content out there. And that started to really take off.

Julie Menanno [00:02:10]:

And then I learned how to do Canva, and that was like a kid in a candy store for me. And it was it was I it just kind of took off, and I think I have something I’ll I had something unique to offer at the time, which is coming from the perspective of someone who actually does this work. And, you know, and so, anyway, that really took off and then was approached to write a or I started writing a book because the followers were asking for a book. So I got the manuscript done, then an agent contacted me, and that turned into a book deal. And then I wrote the book. The book is called Secure Love. The book is meant to walk couples through the work I do with couples in my practice, self help version. And then I was like, you know what? I need to complete this circle and bring this work to life.

Julie Menanno [00:02:58]:

So I started a podcast where I have a real life couple, Melissa and Drew, and I’m doing 20 sessions of couples work with them. And so we’re on I’ve recorded episode I’ve recorded 7, and we’re on release of 5. And it’s going swimmingly. They are an very typical anxious partner with an avoidant partner, and they’re quickly moving into secure attachment. So yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:03:27]:

That’s awesome. A lot. That was a lot. Great. Be it’s because you’re excited and passionate, and that’s what I love about you is that there’s a lot of people that put out content to put out content. But that wasn’t how you started. You started by wanting to help, and it it turned into you putting out content. But it’s it’s a whole different way of of seeing things, and I think that’s why so many people out there love you.

Jen Hardy  [00:03:48]:

And like I said last time, I mean, every post of yours on Instagram, I feel like could be a book. I mean, it’s you have a way of just condensing it. But for people who are listening, who are thinking, what the heck is this attachment thing that I keep hearing about? What is that?

Julie Menanno [00:04:03]:

Well, you know, it’s it’s interesting because it’s such a simple theory that I have a really hard time ex every every podcast, every interview, I explain it in a different way, but I’ve kinda tried to narrow it down to this. Like, we’re we’re wired as humans to need to seek safety and closeness and comfort with our tribe, basically. Because that’s what keeps us safe. You know, we can’t if if thrown into the forest, we’re not gonna do well eating and having shelter on our own. And so we have in order to be wired to stay safe and connected, we obviously need to experience fear when we’re not safe and connected, which motivates us to find re regain that sense of connection. Just like when you’re hungry, you have to experience the discomfort of hunger or else you’re not gonna eat. And so what happens is is people who grow up in environments where the emotional safety isn’t super healthy, emotional emotional safety is intrinsically connected to physical safety, and I won’t go into why, but it is. And so if you grow up in an environment with not a lot of emotional support or emotional safety, you you learn to take on this, like, tear like, this kind of chronic anxiety, which is your body’s way of saying, hey.

Julie Menanno [00:05:20]:

I need to feel safe. I need to feel safe. And until that anxiety is fixed with safety in your relationships, it’s probably not going to go on away on its own. And so what happens is is we have this sense of anxiety, and then some people act out on that anxiety. They’re they’re panicky. They’re constantly trying to reach for connection, close the distance, protest when things don’t go their way. And it it’s a they they do this in a way that that actually ends up pushing people away. And then we have another group of people who kinda just stuff it down.

Julie Menanno [00:05:53]:

Let’s just pretend it’s not there to begin with. And they find themselves moving away from relationships, which then makes them have all sorts of substance of any any number of, you know, things that people do when they feel kind of empty and disconnected inside. And so, then we have a disorganized attachment, which is kind of a mixture of both with some trauma added in. And then we have secure attachment, which are the folks who did grow up in the emotionally safe environments, and they just have a they have a way of maintaining their connections with their loved ones and staying safe. And, so, anyway, that’s basically attachment theory in a nutshell. My job is to improve these relationships so people aren’t feeling angsty, and they can feel good and close and connected and secure and all the good stuff that comes from them.

Jen Hardy  [00:06:48]:

And so the good news is that if you’re if you don’t feel secure and you don’t have healthy relationships, there is light at the end of this tunnel.

Julie Menanno [00:06:56]:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you’ll see Melissa and Drew, the couple I’m working with. I mean, 5 sessions in, they’re already getting that sense of safety with each other.

Jen Hardy  [00:07:06]:

That is so amazing. So that’s really good. And then you talked about different kinds of attachment. So there’s anxious. And can you just briefly explain that too so if your people watching can know?

Julie Menanno [00:07:17]:

Yeah. So anxious attachment, very aware of relationship angst, very aware of the need to connect. Again, they’re gonna handle that feel you know, the anxiousness they feel over the disconnection, with protests. You know, they’re really in touch with anger, angry responses, escalation, you know, just anything they can do to close the distance, be heard, be seen, fighting for validation, which is invalidation is a huge part of disconnection. And, again, you know, they’re not they’re not able to to get their needs met. A lot of the way they’re trying to get their needs met ends up pushing others away. And the thing is is that they all also legitimate legitimately don’t have their needs met. So it’s not like anyone’s bad or good here.

Julie Menanno [00:08:07]:

It’s just a re a normal reaction to people who don’t who really genuinely are not getting their needs met. And as children, we have no fault for that. But then as adults, we definitely play a role in not getting our needs met. And then we have the avoidant attachment that they, again, they just stuff it down. Their way of dealing with relationship anxiety and angst is don’t feel it and move away from situations that might trigger it. So they’re always just sort of trying to keep things stable, and then these 2 come together. I mean, 99% of the couples I couples I treat are an anxious avoidant dynamic. So you have one partner who’s fighting for all the disc the the connection, and you have another partner who’s just fighting to keep things stable and not fight and not go to these escalated places.

Julie Menanno [00:08:53]:

And I I just need to come in and balance that out. So both of them are fighting for the relationship, but in a regulated equal way, and both of them are committed to not going into fights and escalation.

Jen Hardy  [00:09:08]:

That’s it sounds like so many relationships that I know of. Yeah.

Julie Menanno [00:09:12]:

So that I mean, yeah, you can kinda just look around. Like, any any relationship with distress is going to have this dynamic to some degree. Whether they started out with it or they kinda subconsciously started to manage the distress by falling into this. It’s a it’s a way of creating emotional balance.

Jen Hardy  [00:09:34]:

That’s interesting. And so something that because, you know, people really need help. Right? If they if this is all they know, they need to get some kind of help to point them in the right direction. And when we talked last time, you were saying, it is nigh impossible to find a really good therapist. And I as someone who, throughout my life, has tried, I can second that, we’ve, we did find someone that is decent in our area and which is, I mean, 50 years of looking. Right. But, but that’s the thing. And so if someone’s thinking, wait a minute, we I’m in this relationship and you’re saying there’s help.

Jen Hardy  [00:10:15]:

I know that there is a way they can actually meet with you or someone that, that works with you. Can you talk about that? Because I I don’t wanna wait till the end to talk about that because Sure. I think it’s important.

Julie Menanno [00:10:26]:

Yeah. It is very, very hard. And, you know, I’ll I’ll tell you why it’s hard. I’ve been doing this for 14 years. I’ve been practicing this type of work, which is called EFT, emotionally focused therapy for couples. I have the best supervisor out there who teaches me everything I know. When I say supervisor, I don’t mean I work for him. He is a senior member of has been doing this type of work for, you know, 25, 30 years instead of 14.

Julie Menanno [00:10:59]:

And the other day, I got the greatest compliment from him ever, which is I am an 8 out of 10 as far as EFT therapist goes. I have put everything I have into learning this modality. Literally everything. Studying, practicing, reading, going to trainings all over the, you you know, the country. And I’m still an 8 out of 10. And most of us are 5 or less out of 10. So that that shows you how difficult this is. It’s a simple fair it’s a simple modality to learn.

Julie Menanno [00:11:38]:

It’s an impossible one to master. And so the reality is is that it’s really difficult. It’s really difficult work. And so now we have it’s difficult work to really get super good at on top of the fact that, you know, there aren’t a ton of couples therapists out there to begin with. Nobody wants to work with couples. It’s incredibly difficult. You know, you get it’s it can be demoralizing. You’re going into the fire.

Julie Menanno [00:12:03]:

It can be overwhelming. For those of us who love it, that’s all like a kind of a that’s the the challenge of it is what we love. And so I do have a staff that is, you know, personally trained by me, and I can vouch for for them. They value the secure relationship,

Jen Hardy  [00:12:21]:

And they can they can work with you online too. So this is not an insurance thing where you’re on a different state line. This is not considered, like, a coaching kind of thing.

Julie Menanno [00:12:30]:

Right? Take insurance. We don’t treat diagnosable conditions. They’re all licensed therapists, but they they operate as coaches because that allows us to treat people across state lines. If we’re working with a therapy license, you can only treat someone in the state that you’re licensed in. But they’re not actually working as therapists. They’re working as coaches because they’re doing relationship communication work. They’re not treating diagnosable conditions. We’re not treating depression or anxiety or bipolar.

Julie Menanno [00:13:05]:

You know, we’ve been doing the EFT folks have been doing attachment work for 3 decades. I mean, that’s when Sue Johnson created this. And but that hasn’t been you know, at first, it was really looked down on in the couple’s world, and more and more people are realizing that this attachment in somatic work, just in the field of therapy at all, is becoming like what’s been missing? Like, it’s the missing piece. I mean, the mental health world is has failed, to be honest with you. I mean, if you look at, you know, NIH studies and, all kinds of stuff, it’s like, wow. This has really failed. And I believe it’s because we’ve missed these 2 major, major pieces, which is attachment relational work and somatic work. And so I think there’s access to better help on on social media, you know, people who are more savvy about these new new lenses.

Julie Menanno [00:14:01]:

But with that said, on the other side of that, you have people who you know, what happens is if you start having dysfunctional families, then it just, you know, keeps growing exponentially.

Jen Hardy  [00:14:13]:

And so a question because, you’re talking about the EFT. Last time we had talked about cognitive behavioral therapy and how that is not the best, but it seems to be what a lot of people are pushing. And it’s trying to teach you to stop feeling what you’re feeling. And we were hitting walls with that. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between the 2 Sure. Modalities?

Julie Menanno [00:14:40]:

Huge difference. Cognitive behavioral, it’s you know, first of all, I’m not an expert in CBT. I I know a lot of people, you know, know some little bit about CBT, and then there’s some people who are just all in and that’s all they do. So if I misrepresent CBT, I apologize in advance. But, you know, it’s just really staying in your head, being thinking rationally, examining your thoughts, you know, looking at your catastrophized fears. And it’s very heady and intellectual. And that’s what I mean by, you know, the mental health field has failed. Because they’re they’ve been missing these 2 huge pieces, which is attachment work, which is more emotional, but not emotional in a kinda new way.

Julie Menanno [00:15:21]:

Somatic work is very emotional in in the best sense of the word because you’re actually getting to the emotions in the body. I don’t feel that I’ve seen a lot of people have a ton of success with CBT. It’s just like, you go to therapy, yes, you’re getting better. There’s things that have gotten better, but you’re still not really where you wanna be. And and so I have heard from people who say, yeah. CBT really helped me, but it didn’t really get me completely where I wanna be. And, you know, one of there’s there’s a lot of controversy around it too because back in the, I don’t know, nineties, 2000, when insurance companies were starting to pay for therapy, they were funding all the CBT studies. And so what they were finding is that, you know, people would heal after 8 sessions of CBT therapy.

Julie Menanno [00:16:14]:

And so now that’s all they’re paying for. So it was, like, convenient for them to, you know, to back CBT. They created the studies to begin with. So, again, that’s just a piece of it. You know, I don’t wanna put it in, you know, speak broadly. I think there’s a lot to be said for it, but I don’t think it’s a complete therapy at all. And, I mean, I do EFT that this attachment work that I do with the EFTA scaffolding on it, I bring everything in. Somatic work with my clients.

Julie Menanno [00:16:46]:

I do parts work. I do CBT work. I do but it’s all in the context of the big picture. And I think CBT is just a piece of that. And I don’t think just emotional work alone is the missing is enough either. I think you need to bring a lot of different elements together.

Jen Hardy  [00:17:07]:

A lot of different things have a place. Right? Yes. Absolutely. When we take them completely, it’s then that is where it that’s where it can get difficult. Right. Any one thing just taken by itself is so the because there isn’t one one size fits all, is there, for every person?

Julie Menanno [00:17:25]:

No. I think we all have different, you know, layers to our being, and we need to work on all of those different layers. And, yeah. So and and also all of these different modalities have a lens through which to view humanity, and there’s truth to all of it. I think attachment is the most complete.

Jen Hardy  [00:17:47]:

Yeah. It it does. It makes so much sense. So Yeah. I have a question. Speaking of, you know, things, one size fits all or, you know, whatever. What is the hot buttons or hot words that’s been all over the place right now is narcissism. Yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:18:00]:

I I I feel like you were gonna

Julie Menanno [00:18:01]:

say that. I didn’t even yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:18:03]:

I feel like it’s overused for a lot of people that aren’t actually narcissists. But, I asked people to give me questions before today, and one of them was, if you’re in a relationship with an actual like, a narcissist Mhmm. And is there is there hope for that if they don’t see themselves as a narcissist or should you run? That was the question. I know that’s that’s you wouldn’t say run, but, I

Julie Menanno [00:18:30]:

mean, I if someone is an actual true diagnosable DSM narcissist, definitely run. I mean, no. There is, you know, the saddest thing about narcissism thick, thick, ingrained defense mechanism, and it just it gets in the way of them able to see their own parts of problems. So it’s like, if someone truly is a narcissist, it’s really difficult to break through that. And I don’t think that they’re capable being in healthy relationships. It would it’s an actual nightmare to be in a relationship with someone who is a full blown narcissist. But I also think that there are a lot of people that are being misdiagnosed as narcissist. And I also think that there’s probably more narcissism in our culture than ever.

Julie Menanno [00:19:21]:

So there’s it all of it has truth to it, but I would be very, very careful about diagnosing a partner with narcissism. Because a lot of the time, that isn’t the most accurate. That isn’t the the best way to explain it.

Jen Hardy  [00:19:35]:

Right. And I feel like it’s kinda like the word triggered. Right? Certain people are very triggered by actual huge things, but then it’s a word that people use for for little things. So I think words are important. Don’t you say? I I feel like I

Julie Menanno [00:19:48]:

do. Yeah. And I and I always wanna you know, if someone gives me a word, especially when I’m working with them, I’m just gonna try I really need to understand what do you mean by that word? Like, help me understand for you what is triggered actually mean. What does narcissism mean for you? You know? Why why is it? What are the good reasons that you’re explaining your partner as narcissist? Right? How does that help you? And then once you kinda dive into that and really help people put words to it and understand them and be heard, you know, sometimes that whole lens of narcissism will just dissolve right in front of your eyes.

Jen Hardy  [00:20:24]:

Alright. Now do you use do you use, this is a silly question. What you’ve learned, obviously, you use it with your family and your kids and, and in those relationships. Have any advice for parents? I would say specifically of teenagers, because that’s where people tend to run into a wall of some maybe ideas that they can take away from here of how to deal better with their, with their family.

Julie Menanno [00:20:50]:

Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, I think I went into this more to help my kids than my own relationship. Absolutely. It has benefited my relationship. But, you know, for me, my personal journey has been more around my relationship with my kids, whereas my professional journey has been more around helping couples. But it has profoundly impacted my relationship with my kids, and I’m kind of the opposite of a lot of people. I I did not like, let me say this. I miss the younger age, and I there were upsides to it, and I would love to go back and, you know, just see my kids at those little ages.

Julie Menanno [00:21:34]:

But I did I didn’t love being a mom of 10 and under. I just the conversations, I, it was hard to get stimulated. Teenagers, I’m I love them. I love my youngest is 13. My oldest is 23. I’m in literal heaven right now. And I have 5 daughters, you know, and a son. And so it’s, like, lots of hormones.

Julie Menanno [00:21:56]:

So I have really good reasons to be struggling. I don’t consider myself struggling with this age group. And it’s because I decided at some point, I wanna say maybe 5, 6 years ago, something clicked in me. And I was like, you know what? I’m not gonna try to control my kids anymore. I’m not gonna fight with them over their room. I’m not gonna fight with them over grades. I’m just gonna love them and do my best to be a support system for them and connect with them, and let the relationship establish me as a guide instead of establishing myself as kind of the queen of the home that has to dole out all these consequences of your room. And it was it just shifted everything.

Julie Menanno [00:22:40]:

It just really shifted everything. I think if, you know, you read Gabor Mate’s work around parenting, it would be very similar to that. And that I found Gabor Mate after I’d already put all this stuff into practice kind of on my own. And, you know, my kids, once I kinda shifted out of that, what I have seen is they come to me for guidance. They have taken ownership of their education and their physical health They have the secure relationship. And I enjoy having the secure relationship with my children. They anything that they’re doing that is healthy and good, they’ve taken ownership for, because they feel emotionally safe, honestly. And, I mean, when you have an emotionally safe environment, I think just people will grow on their own for the most part.

Jen Hardy  [00:23:28]:

That is, you know and that’s something that parents have such a hard time. I feel like letting go of that ultimate control over everything. Right? Yeah. It’s it’s You know, when you’re sorry. Go ahead.

Julie Menanno [00:23:38]:

Well, I just wanna say there’s a point at which you you let go, and it’s like you kinda let go, you kinda let go, you kinda let go. And then for me, there was this point, and it was like jumping off the cliff. And I was like, I am not doing this anymore. I am not fighting with my children anymore.

Jen Hardy  [00:23:57]:

I love that.

Julie Menanno [00:23:58]:

And So

Jen Hardy  [00:24:00]:

That’s great. And I appreciate you sharing, you know, that everything isn’t perfect because No. People look at you and you know, the, the, in the Instagram and the book and everything and think, oh, I bet her life is just perfect. And how would she relate? But

Julie Menanno [00:24:11]:

no, not at all. But it’s really good. And it’s because I’ve built that.

Jen Hardy  [00:24:17]:

And, and that gives both, you know, and I, I think that’s amazing. How do you manage the the demands of of parenting and doing all the things that you’re doing with other people?

Julie Menanno [00:24:27]:

Well, you know, the the phrase is it takes a village, And pretty early on, I mean, we don’t have a ton of extended family. My husband’s mom was tragically killed and whenever my twins were born, and then we moved here to Montana where we have no support, you know, no family support. So I figured out early on, it takes a village. I don’t have a village. I’m gonna buy a village. And that’s what I did. And I made it happen, because I just knew I cannot do this on my own. I cannot do it.

Julie Menanno [00:24:58]:

Luckily, I had the privilege of figuring out a way to make that happen, And that that is how I do it. I’m not superwoman. I I don’t think it’s healthy to have that many kids and be trying to do it on your own. I think that extended family situations are ideal. And so I had to scrape together and figure out what would work. And so I have the ability now to have kind of outsource all the little things and just be there as the emotional support.

Jen Hardy  [00:25:31]:

That’s incredible. Yeah. And one of the things that we outsource is the cleaning, and that seems to have really helped take the pressure off.

Julie Menanno [00:25:38]:

Oh, yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:25:39]:

Oh, yeah. The kids’ chores are less, you know, and my stress is less and every other week someone does all the big things.

Julie Menanno [00:25:45]:

Totally.

Jen Hardy  [00:25:47]:

It’s it’s so if people can afford it, would you would you recommend?

Julie Menanno [00:25:50]:

I’d say here’s what I say. I say don’t pay for college. If, you know I’m sorry. Do pay for college and do help college. But if you have to choose between their their needs being taken care of in younger childhood and college, you’re gonna your money is gonna be better spent on help when they’re young. If I believe that.

Jen Hardy  [00:26:12]:

Oh, I totally agree. Yeah. Because, you know, I’ve got my 5 older kids too. Yeah. And they we we homeschooled them, and we help them get scholarships, but we have 7 kids. You know, you have 6. Yeah. And our thing was you are going to put yourself through college because, you know Yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:26:29]:

You’re gonna put in everything we can, though, until you’re 18, and we’re gonna help you. Right. But then because we can’t take out the loans for 7 people.

Julie Menanno [00:26:37]:

No. No. Okay. And you know what? That’s basically what what we’re doing. I’ve you know, now that I’ve had more resource, I’ve been able to help my older 2 that are in college a little bit more. But, but, yeah, for many, many years, it was like, you gotta you gotta do this. You know?

Jen Hardy  [00:26:55]:

But I I think that’s great of it. And no one gives that advice, and I think people need to hear. Your kids are with you now and they’re little. And in our whole cultural, I can’t wait till they’re 18 and they get out. You know, even commercial, you know, school starting and parents are singing and dancing and I can’t wait to get them out. And what does that do to a child’s psyche when they hear their parents saying they can’t wait for them to be gone?

Julie Menanno [00:27:19]:

The I mean, I think that’s that’s sad. I mean, I think they’re I don’t know. Like, they’re I always like to look at both sides. I mean, I think it’s good to celebrate them moving on and things. But, like, my twins who are and you can probably relate to this. My twins who are, just turned 16. So at least in the past, you know, few years that my older ones were kinda moving on, I had the twins and the little one who’s 13. They were home.

Julie Menanno [00:27:48]:

So 3 kids at home, there’s a lot of activity. Well, the twins start driving, and now they drive the 13 year old. And so there are long stretches where no one’s here, and I don’t like it at all. Like, I feel I it feels really empty to me. So, no, I don’t think it’s healthy to tell your kids I can’t wait until you go away. Yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:28:06]:

I mean, it’s, it’s healthy as, you know, good luck and with college and I’ll support you. But the whole, you know, yeah. My, my dad made a comment about something like that when I, and I still remember, You know? Yeah. Those things, they just they stick with you a little bit.

Julie Menanno [00:28:20]:

You know what? It’s interesting that you say that because I don’t think I’ve ever thought about that or had that question asked before. And I do remember my own parents saying little things like that, and it hurt.

Jen Hardy  [00:28:33]:

Yeah. We were having a party, and my dad, I was there. I was right next to him, and he said he wanted to bury me in the backyard till I was 21 and then dig me up. And I was like and it was a joke, but it didn’t feel good, you know? No. And so I think, I think because, because it’s so prevalent, it that parents do do. They just assume that that’s how everybody talks and they do it. And I think it’s just good to hear. Maybe you don’t wanna do that and and let them feel treasured.

Jen Hardy  [00:29:04]:

I think,

Julie Menanno [00:29:04]:

totally, you

Jen Hardy  [00:29:05]:

know, we were talking about the shower thoughts I do. And one of them was children feel so much better when they feel valued and not expensive. They feel, you know, and I think we’ve just kind of lost sight that children are humans.

Julie Menanno [00:29:20]:

I know. And they want to, you know, they, you, I, I feel like you want to let them know they’re delightful. You want to be around them. You know? I I have never been one to say, I want you to go see you know, go out into the world and, like, live wherever you want. And I’m like, no. I I think there’s something to be said for, like, getting out and seeing the world. But you’re gonna have a better life if you’re close to us with your families and stuff growing up. So which I think is a little different from the cultural narrative.

Jen Hardy  [00:29:53]:

Yeah. I think so. But, you know, our culture is one of the only ones where we’re like, go away and get out and move anywhere.

Julie Menanno [00:29:58]:

Oh, true.

Jen Hardy  [00:29:59]:

You know, most cultures, everyone’s they even live together. And and Yeah. So there’s a beauty in which is attachment. Right? And knowing that forever your family wants you. And, and, and that’s just a healthy thing.

Julie Menanno [00:30:12]:

And it’s and it is understandable when people have negative experiences. It only makes sense that they want, you know, to create that separation. So I’m wanting to have my kids stay with me because they wanna be with me. You know? Exactly.

Jen Hardy  [00:30:28]:

Now on the flip side of that, though, it is healthy to take time for ourselves.

Julie Menanno [00:30:32]:

Absolutely. Yes. And I do a lot of that. I wouldn’t say a lot of it, but enough of it. Yeah. For sure.

Jen Hardy  [00:30:40]:

So that you can just recharge and just have enough. Yes.

Julie Menanno [00:30:44]:

Yeah. I I walk every day, and I like going by myself and

Jen Hardy  [00:30:48]:

Yeah.

Julie Menanno [00:30:48]:

Definitely. Yeah.

Jen Hardy  [00:30:50]:

So before we go, are there any upcoming projects, books, or events that you’d like to share?

Julie Menanno [00:30:56]:

Yeah. I mean, I my book, Secure Love, by me, Julie Monado, I think it’s really can be really helpful. It’s just it’s a it’s a reframe probably of the narrative around relationships. I mean, I’m not fighting for enmeshment. It sounds like that by some of the things that I say, especially on here with my kids, but it’s not enmeshment at all. It’s actually very healthy individuation, but it definitely comes from the perspective of needing each other emotionally, needing emotional support instead of this kinda, you know, independent way of being that we’ve the the to me, the cultural narrative for the past, I don’t know, 20, 30 years since kind of the nineties has been separate, separate, separate. And I’m trying to kinda bring people back into that emotional support zone. And, so it’s it’s pretty structured because I do a structured type of therapy.

Julie Menanno [00:31:50]:

And then my podcast is is my way of saying, hey. I’m gonna not just write about this work. Right? You can write about it all day long. Like, I’m gonna do it in front of your eyes, although it’s actually in front of your ears because it’s a podcast. But I want you to see. I’m not just talking here. This work actually works. And here’s what it looks like.

Julie Menanno [00:32:10]:

And so if you you kinda have the book as a guide and the podcast, and then I offer, with the podcast, free PDF homework assignments on my website, the secure relationship.com, for those who want to do their own work along with the the podcast.

Jen Hardy  [00:32:28]:

And then love that?

Julie Menanno [00:32:30]:

Yeah. I like it too. I like being able to give that other resource to just drive the drive the work home. Yeah. And then the secure relationship.com is is where you can also find my staff.

Jen Hardy  [00:32:42]:

Which is absolutely phenomenal. Well, thank you so much for joining me again and, and sharing all these incredible things. And there will be a a link in the description and in the show notes and in all the things so that people can reach out to Perfect. And get everything. And and I just have to say one more time in Instagram, if you go to her Instagram, every post is just honestly brilliant, which is how we found you. My daughter found you. And, you know, mom, you’ve got to read these things because we’re all trying to get healthy because, you know, we were not raised in a healthy, you know, situation. So, yeah.

Julie Menanno [00:33:20]:

Yeah. That means a lot. Thank you. You know, it really does. I appreciate that.

Jen Hardy  [00:33:24]:

And I appreciate it.

Julie Menanno [00:33:25]:

Work work at it. So Well,

Jen Hardy  [00:33:29]:

thank you again for joining us, and, have a great day.

Julie Menanno [00:33:32]:

Okay. You too.

Julie Menanno is the queen of the secure relationship and can help you go from an anxious -avoidant relationship to the secure relationship and from anxious to secure.